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From: Brian Redman (bigxc@prairienet.org)
Date: Tue Jun 27 1995 - 09:34:23 PDT
Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 5 Num. 34
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("Quid coniuratio est?")
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Thanks to a Conspiracy Nation reader for sending me his
transcript of an interview with Debra von Trapp. Standard
disclaimer: I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either
all or parts of the following.
-- Brian Francis Redman, Editor-in-Chief
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
To: BIGXC@prairienet.org
Subject: Von Trapp - more to come
Hi Brian,
On Wednesday, June 21st I called Debra Von Trapp to ask her about
a show (radio) she was supposed to be on. At the last minute, she
was canceled. The host said she was spreading disinformation. I
wanted to get her perspective. She started telling me about the
"Dateline" show which she appeared on (which I missed) and how
that all transpired. I ended up recording what I could of my
conversation with her. I apologize for the incompleteness of this
transcript. I turned on the tape machine late and it ran out of
tape before the interview was over. The following is what I
ended up with:
---------------- tape starts here -------------------------------
Debra: . . . NBC was the same news organization that went after
the Mena Arkansas, all the witnesses that could testify against
Clinton and the drug operation that was out of Mena Arkansas.
When they went out and interviewed all of those witnesses, got
all of the evidence, they never AIRED any of it. And in fact some
of the witnesses that they actually interviewed, later ended up
DEAD.
Chuck: Oh, wow.
Debra: And when they came out and interviewed Gundersen (Ted) and
Ken Parton(sp?) and myself, like, for example with me, I TAPED
the interview that they conducted at the Hyatt Regency, with me,
and the interview is almost two and a half hours long . . .
Chuck: Unbeknownst to them? Or were they aware of it.
Debra: Oh no no, I told them I wouldn't . . that the condition of
the interview was that I tape the interview.
Chuck: Taped as in audio tape? Or video.
Debra: Video
Chuck: Oh, video tape.
Debra: I have a Sony 8mm.
Chuck: Oh, okay.
Debra: Now that entire interview is very detailed, every question
they came at me with was answered fully, um, well documented and
then put down any attack that they made about me personally or
the information. I had all the facts there. INCLUDING during that
taping THEY admitted that they had all my documents. Chris
Hanson(sp?) specifically alludes to the fact, that he has all my
documents. Yet during the broadcast, they say on the air, that I
say I have documents, and video and audio, and I refused to give
it to them, but in fact on my tape, they admit they have it, and
then they ask me for the video and audio tape, and I tell them
that I will give it to them for that use of that broadcast only,
they left town and never asked me for it. I followed up with a
FAX to them and voicemail, pointing out the fact that they didn't
ask me for it, and I found that highly suspicious, and then I
turned around and used their own FEDEX account number that they
had given me earlier . . .
Chuck: Uh, huh.
Debra: I faxed (she means FEDEXed) the video tape to the next
location that they were taping at, which was the militia in
Michigan . . .
Chuck: Uh, huh.
Debra: They have it on their VCR, ready, during their interview,
and which did not air, they didn't air the actual they conducted
with them a few days later . . .
Chuck: Uh, huh.
Debra: And they refused to look at it, or to take it. Which we
found just stunning. First they wouldn't take it from me, then
they wouldn't take it from Norm Olson(sp?) And yet they on air
they said that they didn't have my documents or video because I
refused to give it to 'em!
Chuck: I tell ya, these people are just obscene.
Debra: And then they said these, . .uh, . the statements such as
that, . . um, . that I had . . not . uh, or I had enemies in the
government and I said . . or the Irvine Police Department
(Irvine, California) was an agent of my enemies in the government
(laughs). I called Beno(?) Schmidt(sp?) the actual producer on
this segment, again the guy who won't admit, you know, he put
Joe Del Monico's(sp?) name on it and not his own, because his
daddy was the president of Yale. Um, I left him a voicemail
today(6/21/95) and said, "Beno, ya know, I'm noticing two things,
first of all, that you didn't put your name on that, and is that
because your daddy told you after I discovered who you were and
he was, um, that maybe it was better not to do that? (laughs)
That you be identified with Wollsey(sp?) and Bush and Clinton.
And then also, I noted that you claimed on air that I have
enemies in the government." and I said, "I have now reviewed,
every piece of video tape that I have, while I'm in your
presence, my voicemail messages to you, and all the hard copied
facsimile documentation, and all my messages hand written, and in
*none* of these documents can I find any reference to enemies in
the government. So, here's the question: Beno Schmidt - Who are
my enemies in the government? You seem to know and I don't."
(laughing)
Chuck: And you would *like* to know, right?
Debra: Yeah, and I said please disclose it immediately (laughing)
you know. I know you have a FEDEX account, because I used it
(laughs) and you know, please write 'em down tomorrow and have
them to me by Friday, because I'm deeply concerned if you've
identified some government enemies that I have, I need to know
about them (laughs)
Chuck: Oh, yeah, definitely
Debra: Um, their . . the almost entire coverage was erroneous.
And in what uh, . . you know, they've really done a disservice
to, I think, everyone, especially the victims in Oklahoma City .
. .
Chuck: Oh, definitely
Debra: They have so much information from me, and they
characterized me as a conspiracy theorist, when in fact, I have
NEVER been politically active, I have NEVER made public
statements until April 18th which was the day before the bombing,
when I put out my first press release, uh, um, the information I
gave to Sarah MacClendon(sp?) right after, uh, Clinton's speech,
referencing this information and the fact that a federal building
was going to be attacked. And then, of course it happened the
next day. But, I have not been public at all. Uh, my career, I'm
known as being extremely private, in my personal life, I'm know
for being extremely private, and they tried to paint me as
someone who has conspiracy theories and in fact that has never
been the case, and I've never discussed anything like this. What
actually happened was, they prepared this story and went after a
woman, I believe her name is Linda Thompson?
Chuck: Oh, yeah, I know of Linda.
Debra: Yeah, that covered Waco.
Chuck: Right. She did a video tape. She's a lawyer, right?
Debra: Okay, and what happened was that, Beno Schmidt and his
crew flew to Linda Thompson's location after arraigning an
interview for her on this segment. They, according to Beno
Scmidt's story, started the taping, they had already set up the
crew, the lights, the chairs, she walked in, and as they were
beginning the interview, she demanded a *payment* for the
interview. And they explained to her, that they were a news
organization, and would not pay her to be taped. She got in a
huff and walked off. Now that's Beno Schmidt's statement. In
fact, he said to me, "She stiffed us. She walked out on us after
asking for a check." And I think what happened, is they had
prepared this information, and the questioning, and the whole
positioning of that story, for *Linda*. And instead, they
couldn't get her, they came after me after reviewing the Internet
or where ever they suggest they picked me up. And what they were
actually approaching was a story coming from a witness inside an
operation that culminated in the downing of that building , but
they never represented that. And none of the information that
they put out conformed at all to any of the statements that I
gave them. In fact the only clips of me they show, that brief
encounter regarding my statement about, um, the FBI, uh, accusing
Tim McVeigh, was in fact after they had just *hammered* me for
almost an *hour* over . . . uh, . . . wild statements, like,
"You've been on talk shows, and you've been actively seeking
publicity, and you just did this as a publicity stunt." And I
just . . . I kept saying to them, "Who are you talking about?"
You know, you couldn't have prepared these questions for me,
because, I . . you know, . . I don't know where you did your
research. It occurred to me, this is the Linda Thompson
interview. And all they did was transfer the Linda Thompson
interview to my segment and, I was *confused* because I didn't
know where they were coming from with this information.
Chuck: Oh.
Debra: And they were just desperate to, I guess, interview
Linda, and didn't get her, and decided to use me instead.(laughs)
But that's, that's what happened on that segment. So what I've
done, that interview, that *I* have taped, um, parts of it are
very, the camera is very shaky. The person holding it, was
actually not on a tripod(the camera). But what's important is,
the audio to it, of course. And so, I'm, I'm considering either,
um, editing only to the point of taking out dupli . . they did
some takes and re-takes on certain questions, . . .
Chuck: Uh, huh.
Debra: And I was thinking of either just re-editing only to make
sure that I've only removed duplicate takes or if it's too hard
to watch in terms of the shakiness of the camera, maybe just
doing an audio of the entire interview and having that publicly
available, so people could listen to what actually the difference
was between the Dateline interview that took place between myself
and Chris Hanson and then what was aired, which was entirely
different.
Chuck: Yeah, well . . .
Debra: And, . and, . . if . . if anyone who listens to the real
interview can see that it was conducted very differently. They
were given lots of background information, um, . .
Chuck: And what . . .
Debra: . . . documentation, photos were referenced, I mean went
right down the line. It was a very hard core interview, and yet
they don't suggest that any of that evidence was given to 'em
during that . . you know . . segment that they did.
Chuck: Yeah, I talked to Sherman today, and he said the whole
story was about 14 minutes, and they didn't show hardly anything
of you. It was . . you were walking somewhere and then walking
away or some . . I don't know. It was . . .
Debra: Yeah, they just told me walk down the sidewalk, sit down
on the bench, just to do some little outtake shots (actually
transitions shots), I remember when I was sitting on the bench, I
was thinking, "you know, this is so out of character", people
never see me do things like this.
Chuck: Uh, huh.
Debra: The most you would ever see me is maybe walking down an
isle or something at a computer show. But I'm just not public.
You don't even see me out in public. No one sees me unescorted. I
just sort of, you know, an old-fashioned woman in that respect.
I'm never alone. Um and I mean if I'm not with my son, I'm with
an assistant or somebody. But, I remember when I was sitting on
the bench thinking, "I bet, they're gonna air *this* shot while
they're *nailing* me with something negative." And I'll be darned
if they didn't do it! (laughs)
Chuck: You were right. You were right.
Debra: Cause it was perfect. yeah, I don't know. What I was
interested in asking you to following up on, um, you said that,
the uh, . . . what's this Dr. Montes(sp?) I think? Was that who
this Monday interview was supposed to be with?
Chuck: Well, the name I heard was Dr. Stan. Now I don't know,
maybe his last name is Montes or something, I don't know.
Debra: Oh, okay.
Chuck: But it was , uh . . .
Debra: But, did you hear it on the broadcast or you saw something
that I was scheduled?
Chuck: No actually my wife heard it that on Friday or Thursday
before the Monday that you were supposed to come on, and so I was
driving at the time and I told her to put it on the recorder, and
so, in fact I have the recording of what he said, at least the
first 15 minutes worth or something like that. So . .
Debra: Interesting. So did he say that I was a no-show on his
show or something?
Chuck: He said that he decided not to have you on because he felt
that you were spreading dis-information and that it's just like
all these people coming out with who shot Kennedy and he just
went on and on. It was very suspect. It just . . .
Debra: Yeah, he called me and was very adamant, he had called me
twice, adamant about wanting to schedule me. I told him, "Fine, I
keep my appointments." I was there and he just plain didn't call
me back, I never heard from him again. So, I didn't know what
went on. But I'm surprised that . . uh . . he felt comfortable
just . . uh . . instead putting . . uh . . you know . .
airing some attack on me.
Chuck: So, do you still have connections with the people that you
dealt with originally as far as the stuff you did for the
Executive Office, I mean are you still in that line of business,
. . . or . . in other words, the question that would follow that
would be, do you still think the White House is still
compromised as far as its communications go?
Debra: No, I think what happened was um, just as I have said in
previous interviews, by September, by the end of September when
Mondale's office finally took me seriously, about the fact that
the office was compromised , and that the trade talks were
compromised, as a result of it, and uh, and that uh, all that
went out of the media,(meaning kept out of the media) and then,
um, Allen Witchar(sp?) was sent back from the White House to
Oklahoma City, and concurrent with that, the Secret Service
without having I guess Leon Paneta or Clinton's staff
*acknowledge* to the Secret Service that they already knew the
source of the bugging operation. The Secret Service was
independently conducting their own investigation, and in fact had
in California contacted Scott Barnes who was a name that , er,
that was a name that was familiar to people who followed the
Perot petition committee scandal over the bugging *there* because
Scott Barnes was in fact paid by the Republican National
Committee to bug the Perot petition committee.
Chuck: Oh, I see.
Debra: At the same time that Goetzman(Robert - sp?) and Gary
Thomlinson and I were also inside the Perot petition committee
and Thomlinson and Goetzman were bugging it independently on
behalf of the FBI.
Chuck: Oh, and they weren't aware of each one doing the same thing.
Debra: Right, and they weren't aware of Scott Barnes doing it on
behalf of the Republican National Committee . . .
Chuck: Oh, I see . . .
Debra: And then concurrently, Perot had hired Scott Barnes
intentionally, to bug his own equipment, to spy on the
volunteers. So we had sort of a bugging operation in triplicate
going on, which, you know, it's almost like a Keystone Cop
operation., when you think about it. It was really funny, in the
aftermath that everyone was bugging everyone else, and all three
operations weren't aware of each other., um, until much later.
But what happened was, I was on a talk show discussing that
bugging operation and the fact that right up through September
the White House hadn't even accepted the fact that that was
happening and then immediately in October it was acknowledged and
it was swept and . . the . . as far as I knew, everything was
discovered at that point, based on the information that I had
given. And Scott Barnes would happen to just walk in literally,
like walk into his house, hit the end of the show, and called.
And I ended up on a phone call with him, after the show went off,
we had a three way call between the host, myself and Scott
Barnes, and we discussed at length for about 45 minutes what went
on at the Secret Service, because they came out and accused *him*
of perhaps bugging the White House. And he said that the reason
they did was because one of the taped conversations between
Sylvia Paneta, who is Leon's wife, and Scott Barnes who had
happened to call into Leon's office, and as *I* had been doing.
He had called in, had been a conversation with Sylvia Paneta, and
the tape literally had gotten loose somewhere in Washington and
was being duplicated, people were listening to it. The Secret
Service found it . . . somehow . . . gotten possession of it,
came out to California . . .
[tape runs out]
Sorry about that! I have done a subsequent interview with Debra
and I will transcribe that also (time allowing) ASAP.
- Chuck
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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et
pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9
Brian Francis Redman bigxc@prairienet.org "The Big C"
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Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"
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