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The following is a transcript of a lecture given by Mr. Dave Emory in
November, 1991. [Transcriber: Proper names are spelled phonetically when
AIDS: EPIDEMIC OR WEAPON OF WAR?
There are a couple of points that I forgot to mention that I will
bring up briefly. I wanted to reiterate that in the Dr. Jordan talk you
heard that San Francisco, New York, and Los Angeles were the main areas
of infection among the gay population. Those, not coincidentally in my
opinion, are the areas where Dr. Wolf Szmuness was administering the
Hepatitis B trial vaccine program. Again, you can read about AIDS and
the Doctors of Death. That is the title of a book by Dr. Alan Cantwell,
published by Aries Publishers, 1989.
Also I wanted to mention that it has been theorized by Dr.
Strecker that AIDS was spread in Africa through the Small Pox vaccination
program conducted by the World Health Organization, which has very strong
links with Fort Detrick and the National Cancer Institute. So those are
a couple of details to remember under the circumstances.
Now, once again I want to reiterate that the medical and
scientific evidence is not my long suit. It would be quite pretentious
and intellectually dishonest for me to discuss that past a point. I will
do the best I can.
I also want to emphasize that if you want to ask a general
questions about the subject material that I deal with, your questions
needn't be confined to AIDS, under the circumstances.
Question (Q): I have a two-tiered question. One is I've read
the series of articles that Covert Action Information Bulletin did on
AIDS. They talked about the five different theories on the origin. They
didn't fully discount all of them having something to do with AIDS. They
also talked about the African Swine Fever Virus. They said that in their
investigation, at least eighty percent of people with AIDS tested
positive for the African Swine Fever Virus. Do you believe that it is
possible that this is what you talk about as being cross-vectoring? And
also, a follow up question is, have you read or in your investigations,
have you seen anything suggesting that a vaccine or solution to AIDS
might be in existence somewhere?
Answer (A): Yes, as a matter of fact, there was an article, I
believe it was in the Alta Mata Star, to answer your last question
first. I neglected to mention this during the lecture. But, it is in
Radio Free America Program !6 that you can get from Archives on Audio or
from Paul over here, that the Army's Institute of Infectious Diseases
mentioned that they had been testing for a vaccine for AIDS or a cure for
AIDS. When asked if they had any success, the doctor whose name I've
forgotten, I think it was Dr. Driscoll but I may be wrong, he had an
interesting and ambiguous response. He said that laboratory test results
don't always pan out when applied in the general population. So they
certainly were looking for it as far back as 1986, possibly with some
Now about the African Swine Fever theory, that may very well be.
If that is correct, that may very well be one of the cross-vectors that's
involved. As I mentioned, a couple of physicians from Boston who had
been doing research into the Swine Fever connection and who had wanted to
be funded were told by the Department of Agriculture to cool it, not to
publicize this "for reasons of national security." So it certainly
suggests at least the possibility.
I personally wasn't that impressed with the covert action
series. They touched on some good information, but I also felt they
pulled their punches. I've forgotten the name of one of the authors. It
was a fellow who writes for the New York Native, a New York daily
newspaper. He called me up right after he heard about my Radio Free
America #16 show. Frankly, I thought he was something of a fool. I
wasn't real impressed. But he had a lot to do with that series.
Q: One more question and that is, there is presently in South
and Central America a cholera epidemic. Do you think this might be
related to biological warfare?
- It's possible. I really don't know.
- Yeah, Dave, I was wondering about, they have been saying on
certain media sources have been talking about making AIDS a maintainable
disease like diabetes, if you will. You know, you take an insulin shot
to maintain it. I was wondering what you thought about that.
- It's a possibility. Again, I'm not a doctor or a biologist
or a geneticist. So it's a possibility. They certainly have made some
progress in some areas with AIDS. Although, I'm told by people that I
consider knowledgeable that the drug AZT is really a whammy. AZT will
give you AIDS. It does attack the HIV, but because the protein code on
the HIV is very similar to the amino acid make-up of the T-cell
lymphocytes, which are the main things which appear to be attacked by Aat
when a virus mutates, it takes on the characteristics of already
pre-existing viruses? And, is it true that the AIDS virus does not
necessarily relate to or compare with other existing viruses?
- I really don't know that much about the way in which viruses
mutate from a technical standpoint, nor can I comment again on the AIDS
virus and the way it mutates. I have not heard that viruses mutate in
the same way, or take on the characteristics of other viruses. Now I
have been told by people skilled in virology, which by the way is not
nearly the exact science it's been portrayed. You can show the same
virus to two different virologists. They will agree on the make-up of
the genome, but they will disagree on the interpretation of where it
But the thing that I've been told is that most viruses, many
viruses anyway, no most viruses eventually adapt in such a way as they
become symbiotic with their host. In other words, they mutate in such a
way as they don't sicken the host, which obviously benefits the host and
they mutate in such a way as the host's immune system does not,
therefore, attack the virus. So it's mutually beneficial. But that is
as much as I know. Again, at the risk of seeming a little
repetitive, not being a physician or a microbiologist or a geneticist, my
ability to respond to these questions intelligently is limited. What I
have done is to present what I believe is historical and political
evidence pointing very strongly to AIDS as a biological warfare weapon
and to recommend some of the medical people who have come forward with
these theories. The one thing that I do feel reasonably intelligent
talking about, of course, is the epidemiology because I think that
involves a good deal of common sense. But my feeling is that it is up to
the medical and scientific community to carry the search on past this point.
- Has Dr. Cantwell received any repercussions since?
- I don't know about Cantwell. I do know that Dr. Robert
Strecker was quite shaken when his brother mysteriously died who had been
doing the research with him. I got a call from Strecker once. He had
heard about my work and I wasn't particularly impressed with the guy. He
is an extreme right winger. But on the other hand, I think that the fear
of God got put in him, because his brother, who I believe his name was
John, had been working on the research with him. All of a sudden he had
died very suddenly.
- This is a somewhat broad, maybe naive question that seems to
come up when I lay all this stuff on people who I've managed to trap.
- You'll get a lot of broad, naive questions when you try to
lay this stuff on people.
- Well, it's one that I have difficulty answering. Why would
the security establishment go to all this trouble to "waste a bunch of
- Well, you've just answered your own question. I tried to
address that as best I could in the final portion of the talk. These
people are considered out-groups. In a shrinking economy, I believe an
economy that is going to be completely devastated before much longer,
there aren't going to be enough goodies to go around. This country
operates on the law of supply and demand. Supply and demand must be kept
in line. If there are too many workers for the available jobs and if
there are not enough goodies for the people that want them, then supply
and demand will be brought in line. We will have fewer workers to fit
the jobs and we will have fewer people competing for the goodies, if it
gets to be too much of a strain. It will also by reducing the population
reduce the strain on the society as a whole. I think the basic
motivations in my opinion for eliminating people in this country are the
same as the motivations for eliminating similar groups in Europe under
the fascist period. I think you could ask the same question of Hitler.
Why would Hitler go to all this trouble to eliminate "losers?" Precisely
because the people that are viewed as losers by our national security
establishment, people of color, gays, intravenous drug users,
hemophiliacs, Native Americans, they are viewed as losers. I'm not
saying they are losers, far from it. But they are viewed that way by the
far right and they want to get rid of them for exactly that reason. The
Nazis had a concept that was called "useless bread gobblers." And that
is the real answer.
- I think we can all find some reason why we think that AIDS
has a suspicious or questionable origin. I'm a scientist by trade.
Sometimes we do things to confuse the competition as far as programming,
rewrite, obfuscated code that nobody can understand except us, or if it
is electronics, we do things in weird sort of ways so that nobody can
understand. But one thing in common is that when youevery case of AIDS
in the United States, if it wasn't somebody who got infected by
intravenous means as in a blood transfusion was always traced back to
drug usage, that actually certain combinations of drugs that people used
to have a good time with the virus in their system or some other type of
microorganism that actually triggers HIV. Do you have any comment on that?
- I am familiar with Duesburg's theories up to a point. He is
a researcher up at the University of California at Berkeley. I am not in
a position, again, to comment critically or in an intelligent fashion on
scientific and medical evidence past a point. But one of the things that
makes me skeptical, at least to a certain extent, of his claims is that
if recreational drugs in combination with certain other organisms are
involved in AIDS, how come American Indians are getting it? There is
drug usage on Native American reservations. It should also be noted that
many Native American cultures are also far more tolerant of homosexuality
than the culture as a whole. But, on the other hand, with the exception
of alcohol and perhaps some other drugs, I would tend to think that the
drug usage on Native American reservations would be very different than
the rest of the population. Beyond that, how about the results in the
Third World. I wonder whether Duesburg's study really takes into account
the lifestyle, the habits of people in Haiti or in Africa or other places
in the Third World. For that reason, I'm skeptical. Because at this
point there are enough people who have AIDS all around the world that
would come from very different cultures and consequently would have very
different lifestyles that at least from my position as a relative naive,
I would tend to be skeptical of that.
- Well, what he says is that AIDS in Africa is a far cry
different than AIDS in the United States. For instance, one thing that
he says is that in Zaire, for example, where AIDS is primarily
transmitted heterosexually that it doesn't kill at the same rate. There
a person may have the virus and may live twenty-five or thirty years. In
the meantime the average African in that area also have other parasitic
organisms in their system that would kill the average person in Western
society. But they seem to live quite normally with this in their system.
- Well, again, I can't comment on this stuff from an expert
standpoint as I've already indicated. But I would be very skeptical of
Duesburg's claim that people can live twenty-five or thirty years because
we haven't known about this disease that long, just as a matter of fact.
- I was wondering if in all your studies, have you ever found
reason to believe that declassified information may be used as a method
of spreading disinformation among people willing to seek out this kind of
- That has always been the case. The national security
establishment of this country always cloaks its secrets relatively
effectively. I'm glad you brought that up. That's one of the reasons
that I am very leery about touching a lot of the scientific and medical
evidence because there are a lot of contradictory theories around, many
of them, I suspect, disinformation efforts by the national security
establishment. I, myself, was talking about AIDS. I remember speaking
many times with the late Mae Brussel in the early 1980s, saying that we
were convinced that AIDS whatever it was, this mysterious infection,
which first turned up in American homosexuals was some sort of biological
warfare weapon. That's why the historical evidence, the development of
things from a historical and political standpoint is what I focus on.
There is, for example, no ambiguity about the National Cancer Institute
having its Frederick research facility run by Litton Biomedics or that in
1971 it, that is to say Fort Detrick, was turned over to the National
Cancer Institute. Or that in 1969 we have the House Appropriations
Subcommittee hearings for defense budget for fiscal 1970, which again
Paul has a copy of. So that's why I stick with that kind of
information. That is primarily my long suit. I am very suspicious of a
lot of the scientific and medical information that has been generated
about AIDS, including the notion after six years of study that oh yeah,
we've found this case in Britain in 1959. But, it's a good point. I'm
glad you brought it up.
- I want to thank you for this good information. I have two
questions. The first one is regarding the American Red Cross and where
you see them in all of this when the unthe inoculation against biological
warfare is a classic example of what I call food for thought and grounds
for further research. Often inoculation programs are used to vector
people, in response to an earlier question. So it's something to think
about, but again I can't give you a hard answer.
- Thank you.
- You're welcome.
- Hi. I was wondering with Magic Johnson getting HIV positive
and your speculation back in 1983 or 1984 with the studies of how to make
the disease more communicable, and I'm wondering if this might be a
higher consciousness to get the public's awareness towards it as
something that is highly communicable.
- I really can't say. Obviously I don't know Magic Johnson.
The accounts that have appeared in the press, both for Magic Johnson and
people who claim to have known him well, apparently he was quite the
ladies' man. As the Lakers would go on the road, apparently he had a lot
of one night stands. He was very sexually prolific in this regard. By
his own account, he just was careless. So I don't really know if one
could consider there to be a conspiratorialogical aspect to Magic
Johnson's infection. Certainly it is publicizing the disease. Certainly
it is scaring heterosexuals. Heterosexuals started flocking to get
tested for HIV in a big, big way. One of the things that I've wondered
about, too, this is something of an aside, when you go to get tested for
HIV, they take blood. They stick something into you. If the government
knows who you are and doesn't like you and their records are extensive,
then they could also either vector you at that point or they could say
you were HIV positive when in fact you weren't. That has a very
devastating psychological effect and professional effect on many people.
It's very difficult to get medical insurance or increasingly difficult to
get medical insurance if you are HIV positive. So I wonder. I wonder
whether the testing could in fact be used to spread the disease or nail
- Okay. I had two other questions. Are you familiar with
General Prouty back in the 1960s.
- Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty. Yes, he was in charge of Special
Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the early 1960s. He also was
Air Force Focal Point Officer for quite some time. That is to say he was
the Air Force Officer, and again he was a Colonel, who was the liaison
between the CIA and the Air Force for CIA covert operations requiring air
units. He did some excellent work on the Kennedy assassination. He also
wrote one of the best books on the CIA, called The Secret Team: The CIA
and Its Allies in Control of the World.
I have accessed Prouty's material in a number of Archive shows,
primarily the Guns of November and Addenda. He did some excellent work
in the 1960s and early 1970s. On the other hand, he is sort of thrown
his lot in with the space aliens, so to speak. He is on the Liberty
Lobby's twenty-four member populist action committee. His work has gone
down hill, in my opinion.
- I was looking to see how reliable his writings were.
- His earlier work is reliable and his views on the Kennedy
assassination and the Vietnam war. Prouty is someone I would rely on
when he is talking, these days he is not that reliable. In the old days
he had done excellent work. But when he is talking about his own
experiences in the military I think he can be discredible, regardless of
his affiliation with Liberty Lobby, which is Neo-Nazi and which I have no
- And one last question. Back in the 1960s, it would be about
the time I was one year old, there was an experiment done on some San
Francisco protesters with the family name of Nevin. I was wondering if
you know anything about it.
- Nevins. That is the name of the people, they were not in San
Francisco, but that is the name of the fellow at Stanford whose father
died from the Seratia experiments in which the barge was towed around San
Francisco Bay in 1950.
By the way, I should note that in Dr. Jordan's speech or in his
talk, he confused two biological warfare experiments: One, the Seratia
in San Francisco in which a barge was towed around spewing this
microorganism into the wind in San Francisco harbor; and two, the test on
the New York City subway system because in 1950 San Franciso didn't have
a subway. So he just basically fused a synapse on that. But that is the
experiment in which Mr. Nevins died.
- Thank you.
- If what you say is true, then can't the people who are
responsible for this simply bring two more pieces of genetic material
together and create some other disease and kill everybody even if AIDS
- That is a good question and that is my fear. That is exactly
why I came forward with Radio Free America #16 and this whole line of
inquiry. Because my feeling is there are things a lot worse than AIDS
that have probably been created. I can't prove it. But it wouldn't
surprise me. There has been discussion in military ciro were permitted
to participate in that.
- May I ask one last question?
- The latest issue of Rolling Stone talks about Bangkok as a
sex center for Asia. They talk about how one out of every fifty people
in Thailand is a "sex worker" and how many of them are coming down with
HIV and that hundreds of thousands of Japanese businessmen are visiting
Thailand as a sexual vacation. Could this be part of the plan to get rid
of Japanese competition?
- I doubt it. I doubt it very seriously. It might be a
windfall. But the thing is the Japanese big capitol at this point is
international. For example, people are aware of the damage being done to
the American automobile industry by Japanese competition. But there is
massive involvement by the big three auto makers in Japanese automobile
The Mazda, for example, is manufactured by the Toyo Kogyo Company
which is a machine tool company which is owned by the Ford Motor Company,
the controlling interest anyway. When you buy a Mazda, you are buying a
Ford. Big capitol has always been more or less international. It is
much more so today.
One of the reasons why I did the programs Uncle Sam and the
Swastika, Uncle Sam and El Duche, and the program about Japanese fascism,
Radio Free America #10, is to point out these international links of big
capitol. I would tend to think that infecting Bangkok with AIDS in order
to reduce the Japanese competition would not have much to do with it. At
this point, the Japanese have the United States by the short hairs.
They're supporting our debt. If we take any action against the Japanese,
they are just going to stop supporting our debt, which also would be
mutually destructive for them, because then they are not going to be able
to market their products in the United States. So I would doubt that
under the circumstances.
- I'm wondering what you know about the concentration camps
that have been built in the United States and what organization Global
2000 has to do with this AIDS epidemic.
- I don't know anything about Global 2000. As I recall that is
the organization founded by Sid Bass. I'm not absolutely positive. I
can't identify Global 2000. Is that the environmental organization
that's involved with this biosphere?
- One of their programs is to reduce the population of the
- Well, I'm not familiar with the organization. So I cannot
actually give you a definitive answer to that. But as far as
concentration camps in the United States, that has been a contingency
plan that has been set up for a long time. One of the things that came
out during the Nixon administration was that there was a plan afoot by
far right wing activists in the military and intelligence community to
set up a provocation at the Republican Convention in San Diego, blow it
up and thereby probably assassinate Richard Nixon in order to serve as a
pretext for cancelling the elections and interning people in camps.
During the Iran/Contra scandal, one of the most controversial
aspects that came out was the so called Rex 84 or Operation Night Train
Martial Law Contingency Plan in which some twenty million people were to
be interned in concentration camps. This in turn was based on a plan to
intern upwards of twenty million Black people in the event of an uprising
by so called Black militants in the 1960s and 1970s. So these plans are
There has also been a lot of discussion about using closed
military bases to house "drug offenders" who then would be put to work in
work camps. They are talking about, again, upwards of twenty million
under the circumstances. These "drug offenders" would work for private
corporations who would maintain these camps. In turn, the corporations
would get the profits from their labor as long as they continued to fund
the establishment of other institutions.
Radio Free America #32 has a good discussion of Operation Night
Train. There is material available from the Christic Institute about
that. You can read about it also in a number of different publications.
I would recommend Covert Action Information Bulletin #33. There is a
very fine article in there called FEMA and the National Security
Council. It is by a woman named Diana Reynolds. That will go into that
and the development of this to a considerable extent. There is also
discussion in Radio Free America #23 about the early martial law
contingency plans under Richard Nixon. That, in turn, if you can find
the book, it draws on the book The Glass House Tapes, published in soft
cover by the Avon Press, copyright 1973. That's put out by the Citizens
Research and Investigating Commission. That will give you some hard
information about that.
- Thanks. I think it was the last few days. The Cuban
Government is actually locking up people who are testing positive for HIV
virus. As soon as anyone becomes of an age where they are sexually active
are immediately incarcerated for this if they are tested and found
positive. They are immediately incarcerated in this semi-fancy
sanitariums. The Cuban Government is bragging about how well this program
is working on curbing the proliferation of AIDS in their country. I was
wondering if maybe you thought that we are watching them closely or our
government is watching them closely.
- There has been a proposal. In fact, one of the addenda to
Radio Free America #16 talks about, I believe it was Sweden's proposal
for AIDS, which was to take all AIDS patients and quarantine them on an
island, basically in a huge concentration camp, which is what is being
done in Sweden. It wouldn't surprise me. It wouldn't surprise me. And
again, the article from the Sunday Examiner Chronicle from February 9,
1986 with which I concluded the lecture this evening, the tape of the
reading of that article, I think certainly points in that direction.
- All right, David, I have like two questions regarding money,
the thing that seems to make all this go. One is how do you explain the
amount of money, well there has been quite a bit that's been going into
AIDS research if it's something which is caused by the government and
there's all that money in [unclear] government agency?
- Well, as I said earlier, I think that one of the possible
goals of AIDS was to serve as a pretext for basically a gene race, much
like the arms race. Certainly biotechnology and research into it has
been greatly spurred by the advent of AIDS, I believe the invention of
AIDS. One of the things I find amusing about ACT UP and some of the more
militant gay groups who are constantly talking about "We want more
government funding for AIDS" is that I think there has been a lot of
government funding for AIDS, specifically to make it. And I think they
may find that if the government begins funding AIDS even more there will
be fewer of them around.
- That's the answer to the second part.
- Hi. I was wondering if you have any information on the
organization called Porack.
- I'm not familiar with it.
- Okay. This is the police officers' standard training that
was developed by the FBI in the early 1971 - 1972 and then the formation
of intelligence officers throughout the United States within the police
departments and the funds connected to that.
- The Nixon administration specifically using the Law
Enforcement Assistance Administration was very active in promoting that
sort of thing. There have been discussions. The aforementioned Glass
House Tapes talks about it. And there has been a fair amount of
publicity about that, about really the militarization of domestic police.
- Yeah, I noticed also with the special units, we know them as
SWAT teams and stuff like that, originally when those officers responded
to domestic situations, they responded in full dress uniform. As
recently as in the last couple of months, these NOW teams respond in
military fatigues at all times and they wear the hooded masks. Can you
respond to that?
- I think basically the old expression, what goes around, comes
around, which is Emory's first principle, has a lot to do with that.
Ultimately, as the economy collapses and as the social dislocation
resulting from that grows, I think basically there is going to be a need
to keep civil order to a greater extent. The trend of the militarization
of domestic police which began during the anti-war movement, the
anti-Vietnam war movement, is accelerating at this point.
It is my feeling, for example, I've done a lot of work on gun
control and there is a very strong CIA connection to gun control,
specifically, the leading Hand Gun Control, Incorporated and the other
supposedly competing organization. Hand Gun Control, Incorporated was
founded by William O. Wells, a newly retired "former" CIA agent, who
himself owns two pistols and a sharps bore shard rifle. He has been
greatly assisted in his efforts by William Colby, former CIA Director.
Wells is very active with the supposedly competing organization as well.
William Colby is real big on gun control. He says he learned about the
dangers of hand guns while serving with the CIA. William Colby was
Director of the Phoenix Program for quite some time in which by
conservative estimates some forty thousand Vietnamese were dispatched,
mostly using silenced twenty-two and twenty-five caliber automatics. So
it doesn't surprise me that he would learn about the dangers of hand guns
under the circumstances.
I, myself, am opposed to gun control. I see many of these lone
nuts going off and shooting. I've discussed on my program the fellow who
went off in Colene, Texas. A postal worker went off and shot a female
former supervisor. There was another postal worker who went off.
I've done a lot of work on what I call Purdy's last stand.
Patrick Purdy, the follow who killed those students, the young Asian
students at the Cleveland Elementary School in Stockton. Purdy had Aryan
Nations literature on him at the time of an earlier arrest. He had Aryan
Nations graffiti on his weapons, clothing, and in his room. He had
previously been a member of the Moonies. A teacher from the Cleveland
Elementary School who was going to testify in front of the California
Assembly received a threatening letter with a swastika letterhead. It
should also be noted that the spokesperson for the Stockton School
District who handled the media was up until 1985 the spokesperson for the
United States Army Western Command.
So I think that the militarization of the police, toposing the
[unclear] advances in genetic engineering, etc. That virus is, according
to my sources, virtually identical to the HIV II with the exception that
a piece of genetic material called a stop codon has been introduced right
in the middle of one gene. That is the smoking gene in his opinion.
- Is the HIV II what is commonly referred to as the HIV virus?
- There are three variants that have been discovered so far
that I'm aware of, I, II, and III. This number II is very similar to the
SIV, in all probability indicating that HIV II is a man-made virus.
- Is this assuming that HIV is, you know, we hear about it
mutating. In other words, is HIV II the main cause of AIDS, one of the
causes of AIDS, or is it unclear?
- It is one of the variants of the virus that has been reported
to be causing AIDS in Africa.
- Hi. It seems that people infected with the Nazi ideology...
- That's a good way of putting it. Go ahead...
- ...that they would find it irresistible, the temptation to
fool around with genetic engineering.
- Well, Mengela was doing that at Auschwitz. We know he was
doing experiments with genes, with twins and so forth to examine the
genetic factors. Absolutely.
- Do you know of any further research or any clues of what they
might be doing in that area?
- Well, I see the whole situation AIDS against that
background. That is why I began the discussion with the historical
connections of the United States to things like Unit 731, the Gehlen
organization, plus we've had that in our own country for quite some
time. It should be noted that the idea of genetics, and this is
something that I probably should have brought up in the lecture proper
and I'm glad you brought this up, the whole idea of genetics and genetic
research is inextricably linked with the concept of eugenics, which in
turn is very closely connected with the mental hygiene movement. The
mental hygiene movement and the eugenics movement have led to
euthanasia. The euthanasia programs in Nazi Germany were the programs
that paved the way for the extermination programs that followed later.
I've done a miscellaneous Archive show about that. Genetic engineering I
think also figures into the concept of eugenics in a big, big way. If
you can make a super race then you might do that. [unclear] Du Pont, for
example, who was an avid supporter of Adolph Hitler advocated in the
1920s creating using eugenics to create a race of super men which would
have tremendous intellects, which would be as physically fit as Marines.
So it is a concept that has gone on for some time. It certainly would
- It seems like it's the other side of the coin, their
fascination with defective genetic groups. The other side of that is a
fascination with super qualified or endowed.
- One of the things that should be borne in mind with the issue
of genetic engineering is that the military always gets any technology
first. They advance it secretly well beyond what the civilian population
is aware of. Now in 1985, okay, six plus years ago, there was an article
which was published in many newspapers, I remember specifically the New
York Times, of the results of a genetic engineering experiment.
What they did was they took a gene from a firefly. They were
able to splice it into a tobacco plant. What they got was a tobacco leaf
that glowed like a firefly and they showed it. Now the implications of
that are absolutely enormous. That is a gene introduced, taken from one
phylum and placed into another phylum, a whole other category of
organisms, and it produced the same physical characteristic in the other
phylum that it did in the first.
You start thinking about what they might be doing with, you know,
taking genes from Apes and putting them into people, or lizards or
salamanders. Who knows what they might be doing? Among the many
thoughts that I've had about these periodic sightings of things like Big
Foot or there was supposed to be some sort of lizard man or alligator man
down in some place in Georgia or Florida.
Now a lot of that, no doubt, is being generated by the local
chamber of commerce. They get the word out in Tent Flap, Arkansas that
there is a lizard man running around. Basically, all the hockey pucks
from fifty miles around are going to come in. The local country store is
going to sell a lot of beer and a lot of ammunition and a lot of
sandwiches. Not only the local chambers of commerce are responsible to a
certain extent for that, but I wouldn't entirely discount that we may be
seeing the results at some point of the genes from one type of animal
introduced into people, and then producing something like that.
I am going to be doing a lecture in the months to come about
so-called UFOs, which are very real and don't come from outer space. The
only thing that comes from outer space are the people who think they come
from outer space. I'm going to be talking about those as devices for
social control. They have a very real physical history.
It began with German experimentation toward the closing days of
the war. Two circular flying objects used by the Germans as
anti-aircraft weapons, one called the Fireball and the other called Ball
Lightening, were recorded as a matter of history to have been used. The
organization that developed them was a German aeronautical research
facility called Fluwkfuwnkforshunkshunstalter Oberfafenhafen, a typically
compact German name, as I've said.
But when you think about the possibilities, okay, suppose the
ozone layer goes, suppose the economy collapses, suppose the Green House
effect takes place, suppose the polar ice caps begin to melt. Right now
in the southern most parts of South America, people are going blind from
the ozone layer. They are being blinded by the hole in the ozone layer.
Think about all these things worsening. There is talk of global warming
melting the polar ice caps to the point where coastal cities become
completely inundated. If this happens, you won't see the Forty-Niners
playing at Candlestick Park. The only thing that will be playing at
Candlestick Park are the sea hawks and the dolphins.
Now, you think about the possibilities there and those are really
terrifying. Think about what people will be willing to do if they want
to combine say genetic engineering with UFOs. Suppose they take a gene
from a salamander or a lizard or something and figure out how to
introduce that into a human being. edical records or anything?
- There probably would be. I don't know what kinds of records
were kept. And of course Wolfe Szmuness died of cancer in 1983, so he
isn't around to tell us. I should think that would be relatively easy to
check. But again, I would read the book AIDS and the Doctors of Death by
Alan Cantwell, which goes into it at greater
- The other question I have is are you advocating, or did I
misinterpret your saying that people should not be tested for AIDS?
- No, I'm not advocating that. But I have thoughts about the
ambiguity of having somebody stick a needle in you. They could be giving
you AIDS or if they want to make life miserable and damned near
impossible they can tell you you have HIV, which first of all is going to
really, really demoralize people and undermine them psychologically.
- Why would a doctor, your personal doctor, do that to you?
- Well, I'm not saying a personal doctor, but at a clinic, if
you are someone, say a political activist or a member of an ethnic or
racial group that the government does not like, and the authorities in
command now do not like certain groups, this would be one way of
undermining you, even if you didn't have the virus. You would have a
tough time getting insurance. You would have a tough time getting
employment. It would eat on you psychologically. Your spouse might
divorce you. It could have a tremendous effect, even if you didn't have
it. And then if they decided to give it to you, that could have an even
more tremendous effect. No, I don't advocate not getting tested. But at
the same time it might be a good idea to get yourself tested under
another name rather than your own. That is what I would recommend.
- Your talk about the genetic [engineering], it triggered a
memory of an article in the Chronicle. I think it was a couple of years
ago. [It] was about combining humans with apes genetically and making a
slave race. It even went into the all the ramifications of well, what if
your daughter wanted to date one of these guys, the whole thing. It
really made an impression on me.
- I've known a few of those myself.
- Well, it really made an impression on me and I wonder. That
was a while back and they were talking about that very seriously.
- In fact, that's true. That's a good point. The Vatican even
was ruling that they thought that was immoral. This has tremendous
economic implications. The idea is that if you could cross-breed say a
man and an ape, you could get something that wouldn't technically be
human, therefore, wouldn't have any human rights. One of the things to
think about is that this could then be used to perform manual labor. It
would put a lot of people out of work and perhaps into liquidation
centers, as I've indicated, or "decontamination centers."
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"