If you still remember Waco; if you still remember NAFTA; if Bill Clinton pisses you off; then make a copy of the following and share it with family and friends.


[From an interview with the former marketing director of the Arkansas Development and Finance Authority, and former associate of Bill Clinton, Larry Nichols. This interview took place on the May 5, 1994 "America's Town Forum" radio show, hosted by Tom Donahue. The show is broadcast most weekday evenings at 7 pm (cst) on shortwave frequency 5.810 mHz. (Nichols speaks via telephone with Donahue.)]


TOM DONAHUE: Patriotism in action, Tom Donahue, "America's Town Forum." So glad you could join us on our, uh "town hall" today.

Let me just tell you what's coming up tomorrow and Monday: Gary Parks will be with us. He's the son of the slain Jerry Parks, who provided security detail for Bill Clinton during his Presidential campaign. And John Hillier(?) will be with us Monday.

So "Clinton-gate," 3 power-packed days. And today is no exception. Larry Nichols, our return guest. Larry worked for Bill Clinton at one time. He was the marketing director for the Arkansas Development and Finance Authority [ADFA]. Larry, I'm glad you're alive and well. I've heard you on other programs. It's, I know you're a bit tentative at times, you're kind of looking out the window, because you have seen the body count rise in the last year or so. And I'm sure that there is a certain amount of circumspection here as to whether you should be as public in telling what you're telling. But isn't there also a certain amount of "insurance" and security when you do so?

LARRY NICHOLS: Well that was the decision I made in 1990. I knew that there was a good chance if I came out against Clinton that I'd be one of the "unsolved mysteries" [i.e. murdered]. And it's been part of my plan all along that as long as I maintained a certain amount of visibility, then they really couldn't afford to hurt me. And I've tried to do that.

DONAHUE: O.K. Let's talk about, if you could, uh we have some stations just joining us; may not have been with us the first hour. Give us an overview of what you think the strongest allegations are against this President, this reprobate, degenerate President, and why you believe it will force him to either be told to, or "wake up and smell the roses," if you will, that it's time for him to go back to, uh "the chicken plucking state."

NICHOLS: The list of legitimate charges grows daily. As it relates to me and my time with him, certainly the most serious is that of laundering money through a state agency of which he had to sign off [i.e. give final approval] on every bond issue, number 1. Power brokering, number 2. Uh, slush funds, you name it.

And if you took me plumb out of the picture, if you said, "O.K. Everything about you is not significant," then you have to go to what has happened since he's been President. And I think the greatest of all was the raid on Vince Foster's office by Nussbaum, his secretary, Hillary Clinton's personal secretary, and Patsy Thomasson. Now anybody would know that you do not go in and tamper with evidence.

I will tell you this, that a lady named Helen Dickey(?), who works at the White House, who was Chelsea's nanny in Arkansas, who went to Washington with them (uh, she could not get a security clearance, so they listed her as a security person), when, the day Foster died, she came into the White House and said, "Vince Foster has been shot in the parking lot, in his car."

DONAHUE: Hmmm... [surprised, pensive]

NICHOLS: Now to corroborate that statement. She called back to the Governor's office here in Arkansas. And fortunately for us, and unfortunately for her and Clinton, the person that was on duty that took the call was none other than Roger Perry. {1}.


NICHOLS: Roger Perry had to take that same message and pass it on to the Governor and his wife. Now you say, "Well, what's significant about him being shot in the parking lot versus the park?" Even if we give them the point that he may have committed suicide, the fact that he was in... on the premises of the White House would give the law authorities immediate access to his office. The fact that he was in the park, not on the premises of the White House, meant that the police could be stalled by having them to get a search warrant.

Now Nussbaum -- and Tom, I think you know, I brought it out on your program -- when we first brought it out, they said that we were lying.

DONAHUE: Yep. Um-hmm [agrees].

NICHOLS: Well then we find out they did do it.

Well then they said they took nothing from the office, from the safe. Then we found out they did. Now that is tampering with evidence in a criminal investigation. And a suicide, until it's ruled a suicide, is a criminal investigation. Law school 101 tells everybody not to tamper with evidence. That is a serious charge.

Now. Then we have the shredding of documents at the Rose Law Firm. We have... You know, I said it on your program. "They're shredding documents." Everybody called me a liar.

DONAHUE: Right. That's right.

NICHOLS: Well now we have the people that were shredding the documents. Even after Fiske told them not to even take out the garbage, the next day they were shredding documents. And are shredding them still.

DONAHUE: And at the Rose Law Firm as well.

NICHOLS: And at the Rose Law Firm. Now. How does that affect us? When Hillary Clinton had her press conference, last week or whenever, you must notice that she always said, "I don't believe that you will find anything to prove any wrongdoing." "I don't think you will find..." "I don't think you will find..."

DONAHUE: [chuckles] Those were her words. Yeah.

NICHOLS: Why didn't she just say, "No"?!

DONAHUE: She learned something from the Watergate investigation. She was an aide at that time to one of the congressmen, right?

NICHOLS: Yessir.

DONAHUE: Yeah. And so she learned that it probably does help to destroy evidence. Don't keep it around like Nixon did.

NICHOLS: That's right. And you know, it's easy for her to say, "I don't think you'll find...", when they've been shredding documents! If I'd have been shredding documents, I don't think you'd find it either!

So those are serious charges all.

DONAHUE: Let's go back to Foster. Uh, based on what you know, people you've talked to, your own investigation, is it possible it was a suicide? Or do you think the evidence is just so strong in the direction that he had to be "taken out" [i.e. murdered] for what he knew and... Tell us what you know.

NICHOLS: I can tell you this: That if it were a suicide, then it's the only one like it in the annals of forensic medicine or whatever they call that stuff. Because I've talked to tons of people: It just doesn't happen.

Then when you add to the fact that the man with the van {2}, that first found the body, has now been found... {3} You'll notice, 2 weeks ago Robert Fiske was gonna issue a report clearing the way for a [determination of] suicide. Then all of a sudden, Gordon Liddy announces the man with the van. Robert Fiske does not release that report. And the man with the van, that found the body, said he walked around the body for some 20 minutes. There was no weapon anywhere, no gun to be found. And then when you add the fact that his statement, which was, you know, that he didn't even know he was dead because there was no blood, you know, just a trickle out of his nose, a little out the side of his mouth. You see, that's consistent with the ambulance driver's story.

No. Vince Foster didn't commit suicide.

DONAHUE: What would be the motivation to "take him out"? I'm saying that naively, but there are naive people out there. Maybe you can fill in the blanks.

NICHOLS: Vince Foster probably had the greatest amount of evidence, of anybody in America, of the absolute actions of Bill and Hillary -- their illegal actions. And I think he was about to snap: from the "Travelgate," the constant microscope of the media. He had information that, if it were to get out, would destroy Clinton. And, back to the other caller about the levels, the different tiers, I think he had information that would destroy several tiers up on the power structure. And at that point, he became a liability.

Did Bill Clinton sign an order to get him killed? No. The people that profit from Bill Clinton being where he's at, they take care of their own. And I think that Mr. Foster was in a precarious situation.

DONAHUE: I wonder who this organization of thugs are that are beating up reporters. Uh, you're finding people like Jerry Parks assassinated, um slain because he knew too much. You have, um I mean this really is a criminal enterprise, and it's gone from Arkansas to the White House.

NICHOLS: That's right. And I've tried to forecast that. I've tried to promise that to the people. And now, you see, with this criminal enterprise... I believe it's a criminal group. When you think about what they're doin', they're laughin' at us because they're sayin', "Now our guys have semi-automatic weapons. The police have 9-milimeter pistols."

It's the public that's armed and the public's gettin' mad and the public's gonna stand up and stop things if the police don't. They're gonna start taking... We're gonna be forced, as American people, that take the law into their own hands to clean up our neighborhoods. Agreed?

DONAHUE: Yeah {4}.

NICHOLS: If we are sitting there with equal force to match that of the bad guys, then the bad guys got problems.

DONAHUE: It's a travesty of justice. Because I have a case goin' on that they are, they have put together a vindictive prosecution against me because of what I know and what I tell on a daily basis.

And I walk into the Department of INjustice, or Criminal INjustice, and see the pictures of Bill Clinton, and "Butcher" Reno on the walls... You want to grab those and just smash 'em to the floor and stomp on them. You're just so sickened by it, because you know those two should be in jail.

NICHOLS: Well and that's the problem that I have. (By the way, Tom, I still can't hear you very well.) The problem I have is where do you go. When you walk in the courtroom, who do you see? Sneering at you. When you try to put your faith in the justice system, who's running it? They are.

DONAHUE: That's right.

NICHOLS: In Arkansas, in '88, everybody said, "Why didn't you come on out? Why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that?" -- Who could I have gone to?

DONAHUE: Let's talk about what you did and when you knew that there was something wrong with the Arkansas Development and Finance Authority. What actions specifically did you take? And did you succeed?

NICHOLS: I made a mistake. If I could take back 30 seconds of my life, I'd do it different. I went to Clinton and told him he was breakin' the law, and that he had to tell or I would.

And then I was roasted mercilessly for 6 months. Destroyed. Now back in those days, people didn't understand that if you bring somethin' up, you get slammed by the media to protect Clinton. So everybody in Arkansas thinks I am what they said I am. When in fact, in 1989, I proved I didn't do what they said I was doin'. Not only that, I proved they were doin' it. And like the troopers' story, when they were found out, when the judge threw out the case, that they did not commit fraud because they had no evidence, you didn't hear in the media [that] the troopers were tellin' the truth! Therefore what they're sayin' about Clinton may be true. In 1989, I thought everbody would stand up and cheer; not one piece was printed.

DONAHUE: Your mistake was telling Bill Clinton, "'Fess up," "Tell the truth." Instead it gave him time to regroup and to retaliate.

NICHOLS: That, and I think if I look at what my family has paid, and if I look at what's happened to us and what's happening to me today: can't work, can't take money from people that want to help, 'cause if I do then I'll be discredited. And it's tough to fight the most powerful system in the world.

DONAHUE: It is. I understand. Let me ask you, what did you do, what actions did you take, against then-Governor Bill Clinton?

NICHOLS: In 1990, I filed a lawsuit. I had to go in '89 and learn law myself from the law library 'cause nobody would touch it. And that lawsuit in 1990 had everything that you're hearing today, for the most part. You'll notice one major thing: Bill Clinton, as everybody now knows, controlled the courts, he controlled the judges, he controlled the lawyers. If you doubt the integrity or the significance of the evidence that I can bring forth: Why did they not allow me to go to court and squish me like a bug? Why did they quash, maneuver my case from judge to judge, seal it, dismiss it under statute of limitations for slander when it was a libel suit with 3 years statute [of limitations], seal it back up, not even tell me or anybody else that they had opened it, sealed it, and closed it?

DONAHUE: Whole lotta chicanery goin' on back there in Arkansas. There's a lot of good people, it's a wonderful state, it's a beautiful state to visit. But there's an oligarchy there and Bill Clinton was part of it.

We're gonna come back with more of Larry Nichols' story. We're gonna take your calls, I promise, at 1-800-298-8255.

[...commercial break...]

TOM DONAHUE: We're back. Tom Donahue, "America's Town Forum." Larry Nichols, our special guest. And the spotlight is on "Clinton-gate," and Clinton's "futures," if you will -- not as in cattle.

Uh, let's go to Jim, in Helena, Montana. Hi, Jim. Go ahead.

JIM: Hi.

DONAHUE: You're on the air, Jim. Go ahead, sir.

JIM: Yes. I was wondering how your guest feels about Clinton's last days in office.

DONAHUE: O.K. Are these Clinton's last days?

LARRY NICHOLS: I believe very strongly, as a matter of fact I've told millions of people around America, I told on your show it would be, like, 60 days. Now we're down to the latter days.

I will say this: It will go quick. Much as with Nixon, you know the straw of the um, last days were the "Night of the Long Knives," when Nixon tried to throw all his fledglings up as sacrificial lambs. That didn't work. A lot of people have asked me, "Well, if it's gonna happen there oughta be signs now." {5}. There's no fanfare for the President to resign. {6}. It'll happen overnight. One minute it'll be one step too far. One minute, when the hearings are called, he will step down, ostensibly saying that to protect America, since he can't do his job because of all this stuff, he's best to step aside.

Now I will caution you all: He still has tricks to stay alive, number one involving our military in a conflict. Haiti. Bosnia. To take a focal point off of him...

DONAHUE: North Korea.

NICHOLS: North Korea.

That's very dangerous. You must rise up and tell him not to put his children, our children, in harm's way to save his career. It's not worth one death! Vince Foster's death was not worth anyone's political career.

DONAHUE: Absolutely not.

NICHOLS: So beware. He can do that.

DONAHUE: What do you think will be the final straw, Larry? What do you think's gonna be the final, um evidence reaching the masses that he'll say, "I have to step down. I've gotta step aside."?

NICHOLS: Well it will start Sunday.

DONAHUE: Sunday?

NICHOLS: Ambrose Evans-Pritchard will release a story Sunday about Patsy Thomasson. Patsy Thomasson was Dan Lasater's protege. She worked with him. Um, Lasater, Clinton's best friend, went to jail with Roger [Clinton]. Lasater had cocaine in the office; she [Thomasson] was in there 25-50 times a day.

But she made some bogus bond trades that you will start hearing about Sunday. {7}. Now what that does is it will put Patsy in a very peculiar situation and she will probably become the next "casualty" to be served up sacrificially.

DONAHUE: What is her role with the administration presently?

NICHOLS: If you can believe this, that lady, with that background, is the assistant chief of management in the White House. And it is her job to get everyone's in the White House personnel records and get security clearances and she runs and manages the White House.

DONAHUE: And she was an integral part of the Governor's staff back in Arkansas, right?

NICHOLS: Yes sir.


NICHOLS: And when she is removed, then what happens is they do not have total control of the personnel files. And things will start picking up. And then you will start seeing, as you did on [CBN] {8} and other shows, for the first time you're gonna start seeing and hearing the words "drug laundering," and "money through ADFA," and "money through Clinton." Much as you've discussed with the Terry Reed, John Cummings book.

DONAHUE: And I've got that here as a note that I want to get to in just a minute or two. I wanted to squeeze Ralph in, from Dallas. Go ahead, Ralph.

Ralph, in Dallas. Your turn. Hi.

RALPH: I just wanted to make a comment and ask a question. Uh trying to keep up with the Clinton story is very difficult reading the local papers and the New York Times and the Washington Post. But I find if I go to the library and read the London Times, I get the true story and uh, facts of what's happened. Incidentally, they have a different name than calling it "Whitewater." They call it "Fornigate," rather than "Whitewater."

DONAHUE: I've used that term. But I just say "Clintongate," because it's so encompassing.

RALPH: Uh the question I have is, if Clinton is gone, what are we left with? Aren't we worse off with someone like Gore in there, who's probably smarter than Clinton? Aren't we better off with just a lot of stalemate that at least stops a lot of these onerous laws...

DONAHUE: Let me have him address that before we have to break at the bottom of the hour. Go ahead, Larry.

NICHOLS: I don't believe y'all... I don't know Mr. Gore. But I can say this: I agree with nothing he believes in, but at least he believes in somethin'. Bill Clinton, if he lives through this volley, will be the most powerful man in the world and no one will ever touch him again. {9}. And he will implement one police force and other things that scare me to death.

DONAHUE: He'll be real "slick" then.

We're gonna come back and we'll take your calls for Larry Nichols. Where our subject matter is "Clinton-gate." 1-800-298- 8255. Stay tuned.

[...commercial break...]

TOM DONAHUE: {10}. Tom Donahue, "America's Town Forum," patriotism in action. Larry Nichols, our very special guest. Our talk line number here, the Town Forum line, is 1-800-298-8255.

Larry, Ralph brought up a very good point. That is, it seems like the foreign press is having to break most of the story. There are a few exceptions, uh L.J. Davis. Of course, the American Spectator, but they're gonna be considered biased because [of] their, their conservative slant. Or Pat Robertson's network. Um, and then we have people like you, that were on the front lines, revealing the truth. But, why is it the foreign press? Why has the American press, up to this point, been more or less the lapdogs?

LARRY NICHOLS: I've always tried to be honorable, and I've always tried to be fair, with the American press. I can say to you today that I have nothing but contempt now for the American media.

Part of the problem is they were so interested in getting Bill Clinton elected. Part of the problem is they hated George Bush. I don't think they conspired to get him elected, I just think they were against Bush and others.

But they're hiding the truth from the American people.

Now. I don't say that you have to believe me. As a matter of fact, I'm not asking your audience for anything.


NICHOLS: All I ask 'em to do is demand a congressional hearing, demand Congress to do its job. At that point, if the allegations, as serious as they are, that I make... If I can't prove 'em, I've gotta go to jail!

DONAHUE: Exactly.

Let me ask you: What scenario do you see -- if indeed what you've painted for us, and I believe to be true -- that Bill Clinton will be told to, or he'll decide, to step aside because the heat's too much and he can leave with some faith (I guess that'll probably be his presumption here.) Who do you see coming in? Obviously Al Gore, taking over the Presidency. How about vice- Presidency? Senator Mitchell, waiting in the wings, deciding "I don't wanna be a Supreme Court justice."? Maybe vice-President? Or do you see another scenario?

NICHOLS: I could probably... The scenario that scares me the most, and I must be honest, and I have no reason to say this... I mean, it's my opinion. I have no fact. But I would surmise that Jay Rockefeller would be, as protocol would have it, next in line.

DONAHUE: When you say "protocol," as in "CFR [Council on Foreign Relations] protocol"? Or...

NICHOLS: Protocol as, if the President's gone, the vice-President takes over. Uh, seniority and all the other stuff that's out there. There's a good shot that Rockefeller could get it.

DONAHUE: I would agree with you there. I think that that would be the first choice, if not Senator Mitchell.

NICHOLS: And then when you add to the fact -- and again, I'm not well-versed on world, one-world government, that kind of stuff. I'm not versed on that. But if you understand that there seems to be extreme linkage to him, they're gonna have to have somebody come into office to replace Clinton that is absolutely committed to their agenda.

DONAHUE: And that's health care.

NICHOLS: And I'm not so sure that Gore is totally committed to that agenda. But I'm very sure Rockefeller is.

DONAHUE: Well Gore is. But Gore is preoccupied with environmentalism. And I think that's where the health care plan could be forced through with Rockefeller, because that is a Rockefeller plan. Absolutely.

Uh, let's go back to drugs... Mena, Arkansas. Uh I... You and L.J. Davis had referred to... And since your visit, we have had the authors of Compromised {11} on, Clinton, Bush and the CIA, and how both Presidencies were co-opted. How much do you know about Mena, Arkansas? Fill us in on the details.

NICHOLS: I'm part of this triad of the people that are trying to get Mena before the American public. There's Bill Duncan, Russell Welch... Welch, state police. Duncan, IRS, Treasury agent. They were moving from one angle. You have Terry Reed, who was involved from another perspective. And Bill Duncan can trace the money flow to central Arkansas, but that's where his investigation, when it was forced to shut down, stop. I apparently stumbled into where the money was goin'.

In reference to Terry Reed's book: I must say that from probably '86 until '88 at ADFA, and a little bit after that, I was involved in trying to help the contras through their resupply effort. I didn't see CIA drug money goin' to the contras on the ground. I was there. They didn't have bullets.

I didn't see them smuggling drugs, because had they of had cocaine, I'd have got it for 'em and given it to the wounded.

Now. You go back to Terry Reed's moment in time, which is the Barry Seal era, prior to me. I can only say this: If Ronald Reagan, as much as I think of him as a President and what he tried to do... George Bush... if they're guilty, then we've got to tell the truth. If the CIA is using drug money and supporting the flow of drugs, then they need to be shut down for that. And I guess that's my position with Terry. You know Terry... I'm in the book [i.e. Compromised] but, I try to be guarded, Tom, to protect you and your station and your integrity, and stay with the things that I can absolutely prove come judgement day, before a congressional hearing.

DONAHUE: Where did the money go? You're alluding to the fact that -- I think that's the million dollar question -- uh, how was the money funneled? Where do you think it went if the contras didn't benefit like they were supposed to?

NICHOLS: I would say the money went to the crime syndicates that I believe, and through things that you will see in the coming days, connect to Bill Clinton. And I believe the drugs were distributed from Arkansas all up and down the Northeast.

And you gotta understand: When you control the police, when you control everything in Arkansas, then it was not hard to distribute that cocaine out of the state.

DONAHUE: Um-hmm [understands]. What about "Big Daddy" Dan Lasater? Where does he play into this? We know he was the so- called "bonds" man.

NICHOLS: Well Dan Lasater produced for Barry Seal the ability to launder money at a more competitive rate than was the going rate in the crime world. It's my understanding (and again, it's my understanding from Reed's book) that they were cutting 10 percent, then "washing" it through a state agency, "washing" it from the state agency into the banks. You know it's odd that ADFA, an Arkansas state agency, didn't use an Arkansas bank!

DONAHUE: What bank did they use?

NICHOLS: They used two BCCI [Bank of Credit and Commerce International] banks, one in Florida and one in Georgia. And they used Dan Rostenkowski's bank, in Chicago.

DONAHUE: What's the name of that bank in Chicago?

NICHOLS: Uh, Guarantee Trust, or something like that. Guarantee Trust Bank {12}. I don't have my notes and stuff in front of me...

DONAHUE: That sounds right, yeah. Um-hmm [understands].

NICHOLS: And then the money would go from there to Citicorp.

DONAHUE: Rockefeller.

NICHOLS: Now. Then you've got, in December of 1988, right after I left, get this: ADFA transferred $50 million into Fuji Bank in the Grand Cayman Islands. Now Dan Lasater goes to the Cayman Islands nearly every weekend. And by the way: He was put in jail, got out, and was given a full and complete pardon, and is doin' what he was doin' before he went to jail, right now, today. And most people don't know it, the attorney general didn't know it, and nobody in Arkansas can figure how Clinton could give him a full pardon. Because cocaine is a federal offense. But he's got it.

DONAHUE: He went to jail for not only using, but selling cocaine...

NICHOLS: Not selling it. Giving it away.

DONAHUE: Just giving it away!

NICHOLS: He had so much money, and so much cocaine, that he flaunted it and he gave the cocaine away. Not one person does he sell it to. He was giving it away at parties to 13 and 14-year- old girls.

DONAHUE: What about Bill Clinton's "I don't inhale [marijuana]," or "I don't consume"? Was there any evidence that Bill Clinton was a drug user, besides the marijuana issue that came up in the campaign?

NICHOLS: Yessir. As a matter of fact, when you talk to Gary Parks tomorrow, you will find that Gary Parks was at parties at the Governor's mansion, that Roger [Clinton] and Bill [Clinton] were there, where cocaine was in candy dishes.

DONAHUE: In candy dishes.

NICHOLS: As a matter of fact, in '82 -- Bill Clinton had lost in '80 -- Witt Stephens, brother of Jack Stephens, said if Clinton would "dry out" on the cocaine, he would back him in the '82 race. And he did [dry out], supposedly.

TOM DONAHUE: Interesting.

Let me ask you. Back to the... Most Americans, including yours truly, don't know a lot about bonds and how that works. So there's a real mystery here. And that's one of the reasons that L.J. Davis was clubbed over the head and they went through his notes {13}, because he was getting too close to the bonds scam.

Um, how did that, how did that work? Were there any legitimate bonds produced? Where does it stand today?

LARRY NICHOLS: Well, there were some. In '89, when I left, they had a rash [of bond issues]. I mean they'd only made 5 bond issues from '85 to '88 when I was there and up until after I left. Then in '89 they made a whole bunch of legitimate bond issues. Because they knew it [an investigation(?)] was coming.

Let me give a simple explanation, and it's the best I can do:

You go to ADFA, and you want $1 million. They say, "O.K. We'll loan you $1 million." ADFA goes ahead and advances you that $1 million, because, you see, to do a bond issue you've gotta give those bonds to a bonding agency, and then they gotta sell 'em. And then as they sell 'em, they give the money back to ADFA. And then people pay... You getting the loan, you're supposed to pay payments on that loan, which is really paying back the people, with interest, that bought the bonds.

So what they did is, you had borrowed $1 million, ADFA would give you the $1 million, they would give the bonds to Lasater to sell. When he sold 'em, he would give the money back to ADFA.

But you can't find one person, one individual, that ever bought the bonds. {14}. I mean, you would think with all the bond issues, millions of people, for hundreds of millions of dollars, would've had to of bought a bond. One of 'em.

DONAHUE: Uh, you would think so.

NICHOLS: But you can't find it. Anywhere. {15}.

DONAHUE: O.K. Let's go to Jeff, in Pensacola, Florida.

Jeff, go ahead.

Hi, Jeff. You're on the air.

Uh, Jeff, in Pensacola, ask your question, please.

JEFF: Yes. Um, with all the people who are so immoral and so corrupt, in leadership positions in Washington now -- the majority of them probably appointed by Clinton or brought in by his family -- what are the chances of doing a clean sweep and getting everybody out, including Rockefeller? What, what mechanics are necessary to remove every one of them?

And then there's an aside, very quickly. There's something that seems to have been overlooked by all the media, and that is those 8 people that were arrested out in California, in a national park, doing military maneuvers. If they were foreign nationals or skinheads or American Nazi party or something, I think we would have heard a lot about that. And since it wasn't said that they were, I'm assuming that they were patriots, preparing for the downfall of the united States.

DONAHUE: Jeff, we're gonna have to get to that another day. That's not Larry's issue, but I thank you for raising it. And we'll get back to that another time.

But there is no mechanism that if Clinton goes, so does all his administration and cabinet members and friends. Uh, that would, that would be, I guess, a personal choice they'd have to make if they want to leave with Clinton when he resigns or is impeached.

NICHOLS: Well there is a mechanism.

DONAHUE: There is?

NICHOLS: Yessir. You see, if your audience will raise their voice and force the congressional hearings, then coming up in November we have the ability, if people will just not forget, to change the complexion of the entire system up there. Now I have very little confidence in that happening...

DONAHUE: What I'm saying, though... Now we can eliminate some senators -- a third of them will be up for re-election, uh we have all our U.S. representatives. But we're talkin' about cabinet posts. We're talkin' about appointees. Unless we... And I'm sure there's gonna be some "fingered" and some will go down in smoke. But the majority of them, if there's no evidence to support wrongdoing, uh those cabinet members will stay there and assist Al Gore, unless Al Gore wants them replaced.

NICHOLS: Well I don't think that'll happen because, you see Clinton will resign. He can be granted a pardon. {16}. But the rest of these people will be investigated for years to come. And they'll start dropping like flies.

DONAHUE: So there probably won't be a clean sweep, but there could be some that will be cast out as well.

NICHOLS: That's right. Now. If the first and second-tier level people... I believe firmly that they'll still have control of whoever's sitting there. And I don't know what to do about that.

DONAHUE: O.K. Let's go to Chris, in Bridgewater, Massachusetts, I believe.

Uh Chris, are you there?

CHRIS: Yeah, hello.


CHRIS: Hi. First of all let me say, I'm not a fan of Clinton. I'm a firm Republican. But I have to ask: I've been listening to your program for awhile this morning, um and I've been listening to your guest. Um, what's the evidence, where's the hard evidence? First, I heard you say, you're talkin' about somebody handin' out cocaine to 14-year-old girls. Where's the evidence for that? I heard ya talk about somethin' else, and you say you didn't have your facts and figures right in front of ya. If you're gonna come on a nationwide show, shouldn't you of had that information available, be able to cite chapter and verse, as it were?

Again, you know, we're gettin' bound up in so much conspiracy here. Um, Clinton's, he's not a good man. I'm sure he'll be turned out in '96. And...

DONAHUE: '96! You think he'll last 'til '96?

CHRIS: Yeah. I guess I'm one of the "fools" out here that thinks he's gonna last until '96 and he'll be turned out in a normal way. I don't...

DONAHUE: A normal way.

CHRIS: A normal way, i.e. with the voters.

But I just wanna know, with all these allegations and all these, um "there is a conspiracy," and "14-year-old girls gettin' cocaine at parties,"....

DONAHUE: O.K. O.K. You're so smart that you had to repeat yourself. But I thank you.

CHRIS: You're welcome.

DONAHUE: Let's, um let's address that. Because, Larry, your last visit, and I think today's visit, you have brought forward an incredible amount of documentation. But let's talk about the drug issue, and, and who are you relying on? What evidence supports the fact that, um the drug allegation that's been raised?

NICHOLS: Number one, the evidence towards the 13 and 15-year-old girls does not come from me. It comes from the investigator that made the case on Lasater. And it was in those statements that Lasater, obviously, plead... pleaded guilty.

DONAHUE: That was in that case. So you're quoting from material that could be obtained from the case.

NICHOLS: Absolutely.

DONAHUE: All right.

NICHOLS: Now. Relative to Clinton's role at ADFA, let me say to that caller: I was there, you weren't. I was the marketing director, charged with the task of damage control. How could I do damage control at that agency, which is documented, if they didn't show me what was goin' on that somebody would find out, so that I could be prepared?

DONAHUE: And also it's important, it's important to make mention here, that you don't make a dime off these videos. Uh, distributors like myself, we make a few dollars. So does the Citizens for Honest Government that produced this. You're not paid for any of the talk show appearances. You're trying to protect the well-being of yourself, and your family and friends. And the best way is through public disclosure and putting the spotlight on darkness which is occurring today, as we speak.

Uh, furthermore, you brought suit against Bill Clinton. You have brought forward evidence, and you're working with many others that are. So there is no hidden motive here that I can see.

NICHOLS: No. And if you'll notice: All of the stories that I tell ya about, just like the one that Ambrose Pritchard this weekend from the [London] Sunday Telegraph. {17}. If it doesn't come out Sunday, then that caller and your audience can say I'm discredited.

TOM DONAHUE: Last time you were on, we had Judge Johnson on as well. And give us a little background. Judge Johnson. I think he deserves a great deal of respect and I think his credibility is impeccable, I think that, uh pristine, if you will. Let's touch on that and also I want to go to, and this ties in especially with the video [Clinton's Circle of Power], Gary Johnson. He was the neighbor of Gennifer Flowers. Bill Clinton and Hillary, on 60 Minutes, it was like everything was perfectly fine. If there was infidelity, it certainly wasn't occurring now or in the future. Pick up from that point on.

LARRY NICHOLS: Well number one, relative to Judge... Justice Jim Johnson, he was a former Supreme Court Justice in the state of Arkansas. I don't know his age and I don't want to embarrass him, but I would surmise he's in his 70s. And it's a 70-year distinguished career. And he has put it all on the line, based off what he has seen from me. He even says on the tape, when I first filed my lawsuit he thought I was nuts. But then he has seen everything materialize, everything be documented and proven, that was on, in my lawsuit and on that tape.

Gary Johnson. In 1992, I was being bludgeoned by the national media. Now let me ask you this, Tom: The day Bill Clinton announced for President, in October 3rd, 1991, he gave away 2 press kits. One was about Bill Clinton. Guess who the other one was about? Me.

DONAHUE: It was about you.

NICHOLS: And I mean it was all the articles that I had proven were untrue, put in a nice little binder. But they didn't put the things in there that are on the back page sayin' it wasn't me and I didn't do it.

DONAHUE: Uh. I see.

NICHOLS: Gary Johnson called me and he said, "I know you're tellin' the truth. And I know you don't have an attorney. I wanna help ya." I met him... He called me on a Monday, I met him on a Tuesday. I found out he was not just a normal attorney, he was Gennifer Flowers' next-door neighbor.

There was vandalism in the Quawpaw Towers apartment, which I verified from the managers. You can too. He put up a camera in his peephole to monitor the hallways, to try to catch the vandals. Lo and behold, what he caught on his camera was Bill Clinton goin' into Gennifer Flowers' apartment, numerous occasions, with a key. And as you referred to, in 60 Minutes he said he only talked to Gennifer once from the kitchen and from his office and he had never been there.

Now. Thursday, of that very same week, we were gonna file a subpoena for some records. He [Gary Johnson, Nichols' attorney] started gettin' death threats. We filed 'em on Thursday, Saturday he was found left for dead. He is on the tape Circle of Power. Look at the wounds. Look at what it did to him. Three white males broke into his apartment, broke both his elbows, then at that point he gave them the tape. They wanted it, he gave it to 'em. I would of given it to them before they broke my elbows!

DONAHUE: They specifically asked for those surveillance tapes, didn't they?

NICHOLS: They certainly did. Then...

DONAHUE: These tapes that had Bill Clinton on there. There's no other dignitaries on there. It's Bill Clinton visiting, with a key,....

NICHOLS: ....Gennifer Flowers' apartment. Then, after he gave them the tape, through a series of well-delivered blows they ruptured his spleen, ruptured his bladder, I mean, tried to kill him. Don't believe me, look at the scars. You've seen 'em, Tom. Look at the scars on the tape.

DONAHUE: Yep. Yep.

NICHOLS: Look at the damage to this man mentally. He's scared to death.

DONAHUE: Larry, I want you to think, uh during this break, we have four-and-a-half minutes when we come back, whatever else you want to cover that you want to get out to the American people. Reflect on that, meditate on that. We'll come back with your final wrap-up, right after these important announcements.

[...commercial break...]

DONAHUE: We are back. Tom Donahue, "America's Town Forum." And I wanna thank our stations coast to coast and border to border. We've made a transitional, uh we've made a change in studios and there's been a few, well, glitches, that we are working through. And we value your station and your listeners and we thank you for uh, putting up with us. We've got almost everything fixed and worked out and we, we applaud you for being there through uh, tough times.

Let me also thank Swiss America trading [...Donahue thanks Swiss America trading for sponsoring his show. Swiss America trading, 1-800-BUY-COIN...]

Clinton's Circle of Power, the video, is available through us and Citizens for Honest Government. [...] {18}.

In our closure here, what do you want to tell the American people, Larry? We've covered a lot of ground, if you want to do some recapping. Talk to us from your heart.

NICHOLS: I guess the thing that I need to tell your audience is, they don't need to bet on me. I'm doin' as much as I can possibly do. Again, I don't ask anything from anybody, except a congressional hearing: which we should all ask. {19}.

The other thing is just don't believe the caller that called in. You see, I believe if I fail, Tom you'll stand up. Somebody else will stand up to replace you. We can take our country back, now. But ya gotta do your part. And all that is, is call your congressman and your senator and demand that they call a congressional hearing now and let the truth come out.

I've got "warts," I know they'll come out. Let 'em come out. But my "warts" aren't anything like what's goin' on with the nation.

DONAHUE: We have "trooper-gate", we have, you know, "forni-gate", you know we have Paula Jones coming forward, that's today, filing her suit. We have -- and there's gonna be a lot more women, uh many more women coming forward now that they feel that... especially if Paula Jones succeeds and if she's given any favorable publicity, I think that the other women will come out of their "fear zones" and come forward. We have Mena, Arkansas. That's gonna be the real blockbuster, as well as the bond scam uh, that Dan Lasater has put together.

What other, um criminal deeds, skullduggery, chicanery... uh well Vincent Foster, we've touched on that. We know that's still boiling. What else?

NICHOLS: I don't know beyond the drugs and all of his ties to that. And because he will take, you know, "Presidential privilege" and resign, that we will ever get much more serious than what's there. But I can tell you this: The most serious thing that's gonna happen to Clinton and to all the people that support him is people are gonna see for the first time how this system's working. You've learned more about the sleazy underpinnings and how the government works since Bill Clinton has taken office than you would have learned in 20 years.

DONAHUE: We're gonna be talking with Gary Parks, the son of Jerry Parks, who, he was assassinated. We know that the Foster murder, and I think most people would believe it is a murder by now, needs to be looked into. We've got reporters being beaten up, uh women that were sexually harassed, money laundered, the drug connection here. How much more do we need before the American people says that that is enough? Enough is enough. We're drawing our line in the sand. This reprobate President must go.

NICHOLS: I only beg and pray that enough is enough. And that's all we can do.

DONAHUE: And it's not "whitewater rafting". I mean, Whitewater is just the tip of the iceberg.

NICHOLS: Yessir.

DONAHUE: And "cattle-gate" as well.

NICHOLS: I mean, what more can go on? I'm with you. When does it, when do you say, "Enough."

DONAHUE: God bless you, Larry. We'll have you back. Keep us posted. Anytime you're in need, if you need to voice something, you let us know and we'll put you right on the air.

Larry Nichols, our very special guest today. Until we meet again, Tom Donahue, for "America's Town Forum." Until we meet again, you have a great day.

---------------------------<< Notes >>--------------------------- {1} Roger Perry [Parry(?)] may be one of the Arkansas state troopers.

{2} The man with the van: Reportedly the first person to discover Foster's body in Fort Marcy Park was a man driving a white van. This witness has remained anonymous for fear that something will happen to him if he goes public. As he has stated, "I don't want to end up like that guy in the park." He claims, through his advocate, G. Gordon Liddy, to have pulled into the park with the purpose of relieving himself. He went to a secluded area where he encountered Foster's corpse. This witness is emphatic that there was no gun anywhere in the vicinity when he first arrived on the scene. Furthermore, he has been interviewed by Liddy, a former FBI agent, who followed standard FBI interrogation procedure. Liddy is absolutely convinced that his witness is telling the truth and is completely credible.

{3} "...the man with the van... has now been found." Liddy's (see above) witness was persuaded by Liddy to be interviewed by the FBI. However this witness still chooses to remain anonymous to the general public.

{4} "...take the law into their own hands to clean up our neighborhoods. Agreed?" No, not agreed. Yes, some of what's going on is infuriating, but like the song says, "Keep cooly cool, boy." [From "West Side Story"].

I see people supposedly on the verge of going on an armed march to Washington, DC. Then I see that John DiNardo has had a petition going around that simply asks that people sign their names so that a proper investigation of the Waco Massacre can begin. And when last I checked, John DiNardo couldn't even get 100 people just to sign their names!! So am I to believe that we can't get 100 signatures, but that thousands of armed citizens are gonna march on Washington, DC? Here's a clue for you: If the FBI, CIA, etc. are monitoring this supposed march that is supposedly going to occur, my guess is that they are laughing their asses off. At us! At our stupid posturing that we can get a real response to a call for an armed march on Washington, DC.

For all you brave people who won't sign a simple petition but will risk your lives in a march on Washington, DC: Here's something really brave you can try before your "grand march" -- public speaking. Gasp! Not that! Not public speaking! Sure, we'll pick up a gun and march to Washington, but please don't ask us to pick up a video camera, say something informative, and demand that it be played on public access television. We're gonna march and risk getting shot dead or imprisoned, but public speaking?! Gasp! Please, not that. That's too scary!

Final disclaimer: I do not support any armed march on Washington, DC. I do support that we pick up our video cameras, march to the local cable operator, and go on public access TV. Now that would take some guts.

{5} "...there oughta be signs now." One "sign" may well be the upcoming congressional hearings into Whitewater and Vince Foster's death, scheduled to start at the end of July. Of course, as with the "independent" prosecutor, Fiske, the "fix" may be in for these hearings as well. Question: Given the extensive coverage given to the travails of a football icon, O.J. Simpson, by the mass media, will they deem these upcoming hearings to be worthy of equal or better media coverage?

If the upcoming congressional hearings are the real thing and not more smoke and mirrors, that may well be the "sign" of "Good-bye, Clinton." As Nichols himself has written ["The Truth Will Set Us Free," For The People News Reporter, May 30, 1994, p. 13.], "...the hearings are partial to no one. There will be Democrats trying to protect Bill Clinton and hurt people like me and others telling their side of the story and you will have Republicans more apt to believe us than Clinton. But the truth is, the whole proceeding will be under oath and all speaking and all evidence being brought forward will be subject to penalty or perjury if not true. This is the great tiebreaker, this is the one thing that Bill Clinton has feared since 1988, and it is the one thing that will force him to resign before he is exposed for past and present criminal wrongdoing."

{6} "There's no fanfare for the President to resign." Except here at Conspiracy Nation (formerly Conspiracy for the Day). We scooped all major newspapers, mass media, etc. when we called for Clinton to resign in an editorial dated January 19, 1994, which ended as follows:

Mr. President, for the honor of your departed mother, for the good of the nation -- resign.

{7} "...she [Thomasson] made some bogus bond trades that you will start hearing about Sunday." This would have been in the May 8, 1994, London Sunday Telegraph, it seems to me.

{8} "...and then you will start seeing, as you did on [CBN]..." Nichols actually says PTL (not CBN), but I think he means CBN. CBN has covered the "Mena connection," and I don't know that PTL is even still on the air.

{9} "...no one will ever touch him [Clinton] again." I'm not so pessimistic. With the 1994 congressional elections coming up, and with the widespread disaffection with Clinton, Mr. Bill stands to lose a great deal of power. That, in fact, may be a reason for the Democrats to want to dump him fast. With a relatively untarnished Gore as President, the Democrats might not lose so many congressional seats in the Fall election.

{10} Just a note to say that Donahue is currently being prosecuted/persecuted by the feds for alleged fraud or some such thing. He is opting to act as his own attorney. Further details may be found in the Thursday, July 7, 1994, Dallas daily newspaper (I think Dallas has just one daily paper at the moment.) Donahue is also giving updates on his trial via his radio show.

{11} Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA, by Terry Reed and John Cummings. New York: S.P.I. Books, 1994. ISBN 1-56171-249-3.

{12} According to Sherman Skolnick [Conspiracy for the Day, May 25, 1994], Rostenkowski and a Dan Shannon share ownership of the Garfield Ridge Trust and Savings Bank.

{13} "...L.J. Davis was clubbed over the head and they went through his notes..." From the Wall Street Journal, March 23, 1994, entitled "Censored in Arkansas":

He [L.J. Davis] was returning to his room at Little Rock's Legacy Hotel about 6:30 after an interview on the evening of Feb. 13. The last thing he remembers is putting his key in the door, and the next thing he remembers is waking up face down on the floor, with his arm twisted under his body and a big lump on his head above his left ear. The room door was shut and locked. Nothing was missing except four "significant" pages of his notebook that included a list of his sources in Little Rock.

{14} "But you can't find one person, one individual, that ever bought the bonds." So that would be how the drug money was laundered. The money from the cocaine sales would be given to Lasater and Lasater would give the money to ADFA, claiming it came from bond sales. The "loans" from ADFA would be how the money would be able to appear "legitimately" in someone's bank account. The "sleight of hand" here would be with Lasater getting money from drug dealers and then claiming he had sold bonds. Then, when Bill Duncan of the IRS tries to investigate, he is ordered to stop when he gets too close to Arkansas. The topper is that, because the scheme is a bit complicated (most of us are not financial wheeler dealers), even if they get caught, the average person doesn't understand what exactly they did. Slick, Willy. Very slick.

{15} From Vol. 1 Num. 39 "Conspiracy Nation":

NICHOLS: And uh, what they were doing, they would issue a bond and let's say give, like I told your audience before, Webster Hubbell, who created ADFA -- I mean drafted it, legislated it, got it passed -- he and his father-in-law, Seth Ward, got the first loan at ADFA for $2.85 million. You can't find that he ever paid anybody back.

Other, other recipients of "loans" were Don Tyson, Tyson Industries, International Paper.

So we have the ABCs, (A) Lasater, allegedly, performs the "sleight of hand" where incoming drug money becomes incoming bond purchase money, i.e. Lasater, allegedly, lies and says the huge sums of cash are from persons who have purchased the bonds, (B) the drug money, disguised as being from bond purchases, flows into ADFA, and (C) ADFA makes "loans" to various "Friends of Bill." Slick, Willy. Very slick.

{16} "He [Clinton] can be granted a pardon." Nonetheless, it's outrageous that Clinton should be granted a pardon. If he gets away with his alleged crimes, then what is the deterrent for future presidential crooks? "Oh well, they always pardon us Presidents, so why not break the law?"

{17} "...this weekend from the [London] Sunday Telegraph." Given that this broadcast was May 5, 1994, that would mean the story relating to Patsy Thomasson should have appeared in the May 8, 1994, London Sunday Telegraph. Unfortunately I don't at the moment have access to that issue.

{18} Clinton's Circle of Power is available from several sources that I know of:
-- America First, PO Box 720055, Dallas, Texas, 75372. $20, including shipping/handling. Also the Larry Nichols interview, May 5, 1994, can also be ordered from America First for $7 total cost for audio cassette. One thing: Donahue is preoccupied with his legal battle at the moment. I have found his response is slow. -- For The People Bookstore. Call 1-800-888-9999, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. $19.95 plus $4.00 shipping/handling. -- Liberty Library may still have it. Their phone is 1-800-522- 6292.

{19} Hearings are scheduled for late July, 1994. Yet I am apprehensive that, even now, Clinton Inc. may be setting things up behind the scenes so that, again, Mr. Bill can slime his way out of things. Let's hope the "fiske (excuse me, fix) is not in" on them too.

Brian Francis Redman bigxc@prairienet.org "The Big C"

"Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins."