[From an interview with Linda Thompson on the For the People radio show, Feb. 3, 1994. Host is Chuck Harder.]
CHUCK HARDER: ... Now let's go to Linda Thompson. Linda and I have never spoken before so, hello there.
LINDA THOMPSON: Hi.
HARDER: O.K. We've got some kind of a strange echo here. Let me see if I can get rid of the echo and we'll continue on from that. Tell me, if you would, where is your home base?
THOMPSON: Indianapolis, Indiana.
HARDER: O.K. And what do you do for a living normally, Linda?
THOMPSON: Well, until last March I was a practicing Constitutional and criminal defense attorney in federal court. And once I became immersed in the Waco situation, I stopped taking cases. And all I'm doing now is trying to expose what is going on all over the country. The investigation into Waco led to so many other things, it's indescribable. What I do know is that we are in dire straits in this country.
HARDER: All right. Now Linda, first of all, you were an attorney in private practice.
THOMPSON: Uh-huh. [Affirmative]
HARDER: Why would you give that up to run around the country and essentially do what you're doing? Because I happen to know what it costs to do these kinds of things, because I am a "rabble rouser." Number one, I have learned that "no good deed goes unpunished." Number two, the government is going to find some way, uh, to "whittle you down to size," either through one of their organizations or, if nothing else, the IRS. They've been with us [i.e., Chuck Harder's For the People radio network] now for almost a year, auditing us, o.k? Uh, you're going to get somebody's attention.
THOMPSON: Oh, we've gotten everybody's attention, uh, we've been mentioned by Department of Justice in several of their press conferences. I've been mentioned by name, and American Justice [i.e., American Justice Federation, connected with Linda Thompson] has been mentioned. Also by ATF and the Treasury Department, at their press conferences. And thanks to the wonderful people in this country who have really, really, really not let this die -- I mean, there are, at this point, millions of people who are not letting this die. You can't turn on C-Span and not have somebody call in to a Congressman saying, "When are you gonna do something about Waco? When are you going to do something about investigating the murders?" It's wonderful. So I decided when I started this, just exactly what you said. I am an attorney. I did practice in federal court and I do know that that is how they "get" people -- including judges, that's one of the ways that they're able to manipulate judges -- is through just exactly what you were describing. And my husband and I talked about it and we just decided that they can have everything we've got. We don't care. And if you're not afraid of losing your stuff, they have no hold on you. You know, they can take it all! Because what is at stake here is this country's liberty. And I mean that sincerely.
And I have kids. I grew up at a time when, in the 6th grade, we were warning about the KGB and the Soviet Union and how people were being spied on...
HARDER: ...Yep [Affirmative]...
THOMPSON: ...We were worried about phone taps...
HARDER: ...Yep [Affirmative]...
THOMPSON: You couldn't walk in the street without fear of your neighbors were calling on a hotline and turning you in. That kind of thing. Well we have that right now in this country.
HARDER: And getting worse.
THOMPSON: Much worse. Since ATF... by the way. I would like to give out a number. ATF has a hotline: it's 1-800-ATF-GUNS. Now keep in mind, 800 numbers do record the number that you're calling from, so you might want to call them from a pay phone. But there is a hotline to ATF, it's 1-800-ATF-GUNS.
HARDER: What would you say to them?
THOMPSON: Well generally, when I call them I tell them that "I know some Christians that have babies," and "Do you want to go burn them down??"
HARDER: [laughs] Oh-ho! Good Lord!
THOMPSON: And then I ask them if they're interested to know. I mean there is a hotline if you wanted to report these things, apparently.
HARDER: In other words, Christians with babies, that own guns. Hang on. Linda Thompson. Don't go away. My goodness.
CHUCK HARDER: We're talking to Linda Thompson. Now, Linda Thompson is an attorney. She did practice in federal court. She got emotionally involved and she started investigating the Waco matter. And she got so upset about it she said, "I'm gonna give up my law practice and get to the bottom of this."
Is that really what you're planning to do, Linda, is find out what really happened? Or what are you doing?
LINDA THOMPSON: Well I think we have got it down so close that we know the groups that did it; and what they did and how they did it. The only thing we don't have right now is some of the names of the individuals. But we've got it nailed down pretty well now.
Why we really got involved was because of the Randy Weaver situation when we just started the news network [CfD -- I think she is referring to the AEN News Network; part of the fidonet conferences.] right after this siege had started and we got involved in trying to find out what was going on up there, and learned that the media just was not covering this. I was so astonished at the blackout on the coverage of Randy Weaver's situation, because it was an unprecedented situation with tanks around this man and his wife and three children; and ATF agents in the road, with guns on the neighbors.
HARDER: Would you like to know why the media won't cover that?
THOMPSON: Oh I know why they won't now, but I didn't know then.
HARDER: Well, I mean, you know I...
THOMPSON: Sure. Go ahead and tell everybody, though.
HARDER: Well, as far as we know, the reason why the mainstream media won't cover those kinds of issues -- and if you notice right now, when you turn on Dan Rather at night, or Tom Brokaw, or any of the other flannel-mouthed corporate media types...
THOMPSON: ... I don't turn them on. I threw my T.V. set out.
HARDER: O.K. For those who do: All you see is Lorena Bobbit, the Menendez brothers, the Nancy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding matter. You will not see anything about Randy Weaver (even though some of that's ongoing). You will not see anything about Trout Creek. You won't see anything about the Scott Case. You won't see anything about Waco. And there's a reason why:
The reason why is that these matters indicate failed government policy and the fact that the United States government has murdered its own citizens.
Now the media is so closely tied to the government; they truly need their ties to the government in order to get their daily "news handouts." The tie is so close. Let me give you an example: It is common knowledge that David Gergen [Clinton's press secretary] who is Bill Clinton's, and also, obviously, Ronald Reagan's "right hand man," o.k? [Gergen also held a key post in the Reagan administration.] "Dr. Gergenstein," as they call him, all right? David Gergen will become the bureau chief for ABC television after Bill Clinton leaves the White House. That's a done deal, o.k?
There is such a close relationship between members of inner government and big media, that at a luncheon they might say, "You know, uh... leave this 'stuff' alone." And then the "velvet hammer" goes out. And if a reporter stumbles across something like "that," and goes running into the newsroom with a big story, the reporter is quietly told, "Uh....... well... that's an interesting story, uh, young lady (or young man). But I don't think we're going to focus our energies or our resources on that topic. Um... here. Here's something else." And they'll give them an alternative and they'll say, essentially, "Leave this alone."
Now, to give you an idea how bad it is, here's a story -- now bless their hearts, the people who listen to us send us clippings. And we're comparing notes right now, Linda. We have plenty of time this afternoon, so we're gonna do, do a job here.
Here's a clipping out of the Portland Oregonian: "FBI Leaves Bad Taste in Idaho." Now I never saw this on a wire service, but here's the story. Are you ready for it?
THOMPSON: Uh-huh. [Affirmative]
HARDER: This is a killer, killer story.
FBI Leaves Bad Taste in Idaho: The agency pays off $62,000 in debts, but the lengthy delays cause bitter feelings.
The FBI finally paid $62,000 in debt it accumulated in northern Idaho during the August 1992 siege of the mountaintop cabin of white separatist Randy Weaver...
Notice they gotta, they...
THOMPSON: Uh-huh. [Affirmative]
HARDER: ...gotta give him a tag, see? Not just "citizen Randy Weaver," but "white separatist." O.K.
...but the lengthy delays, more than a year in some cases, have left Idaho panhandle residents bitter. Boundary County Sheriff, Bruce Whittaker, of Bonners Ferry, says the FBI still owes him $12,000 in overtime pay for deputies. "That's the only bill that didn't get paid," Whittaker said. "I would say the issue hasn't been resolved yet."
"It caused severe financial problems for some merchants," said Don Miller, owner of Bonners Ferry Resort. "In my particular case, it took 14 or 15 months before I finally got paid most of what they owed me. It was up in the thousands of dollars; three to four thousand bucks."
For its part, the government blames the delay on paperwork and questions about the validity of some bills.
And the story goes on, you know, with what happened, and so on, and so forth.
Now the government was "johnny-on-the-spot" with sniper Lou Horiuchi, and he was able to shoot Vicki Weaver dead real quick. There was no delay on that, was there?
THOMPSON: No, and they didn't make any apologies about it at trial either.
HARDER: Nope. However, you understand that Lou Horiuchi might be a target of a murder charge now.
THOMPSON: Well they've been saying that for over a year and so, because they have been saying that for over a year, the evidence is already in, they already have sworn testimony, plenty with which to proceed upon and have not -- I would doubt that he's going to be prosecuted at all.
HARDER: Yeah. I don't know. I just don't know. It's an awful sad situation.
What is, what is... Linda, uh... and by the way, ladies and gentlemen, Linda is not in her office. She is elsewhere, so we've got kind of a difficult situation.
THOMPSON: Well I'm sitting in a lobby of a restaurant. I was on the road...
HARDER: ...Right. Right...
THOMPSON: ...so it's been a little difficult to get to a phone. We're in a "boondock" [rural] area, is the best way to describe it.
HARDER: Linda, let me, let me do this here: I'm going to do a, what we call in the network business a "live announcement."
[CfD -- This next paragraph is abridged.]
The American Justice Federation (that's Linda Thompson) has produced a videotape called "Waco, the Big Lie Continues." [a.k.a. "Waco II"] This is a VHS, color videotape. It is $19.95 and $4.00 for shipping and handling. And it is just now [ca. Feb. 1994] being completed. We're taking orders for it, and they will be processed rather quickly. If you would like to get a copy of "Waco, the Big Lie Continues," you can order by calling 1-800- 888-9999. If busy, keep trying. It's open around-the-clock. You can use your Master Card or Visa. Or you can send a check or money order for $19.95 (and if you live in Florida, add the tax), and then there's an additional $4.00 for the shipping and handling, to Waco, 3 River Street, White Springs, Florida 32096. [CfD -- Harder said this in February. You might want to call the phone number above to check if the offer is still in effect.]
While I have Linda here with me: Linda, how long is the tape?
THOMPSON: Well that's... we're finishing it tomorrow. Right now, I don't know. Because we've got 2 hours worth of footage laid down. One of the reasons I'm on the road today is, we obtained some incredible footage for... we're going to go back and put it in. That's going to change the length of it. So I don't know.
HARDER: Do you have a gut feeling of how long it...
THOMPSON: ...It's over an hour...
HARDER: ...So it should be over an hour...
THOMPSON: ...Somewhere between an hour and two hours.
HARDER: [Further repeat on how to get the videotape] Right back.
CHUCK HARDER: All right, we're back. Um, now Linda Thompson is talking to me. What is the new information you got? What's, what's going on?
Uh... O.K. let me push a button here. Sorry about that. What is the new information? What is going on with Waco and...
LINDA THOMPSON: Well the thing that you've just been talking about is "Waco II -- The Big Lie Continues." We've got a lot of information in that tape. It begins by showing why the ATF and FBI went into huge cover-up mode from the very first day. You all remember, they cut off the Branch Davidians' utilities? We discovered that they jammed all the communications into Mount Carmel -- which means those people weren't receiving any radio broadcasts or anything except at 10:30 every morning when they did those news conferences. That was staged, just for the Branch Davidians. If you've wondered why they often used some of the inflammatory language that they did, that is the only time they took the jamming off.
Now we've got a picture that shows the front door at the time that the ATF first arrived. And it absolutely, conclusively proves that the Branch Davidians were not waiting for them, did not shoot first, and that the ATF shot children the first day. There's a little child out front of the house and we've got some film footage showing them taking a small body in a little body bag or wrapped in something to an ambulance. Now that is, right there, I believe, why they went into the huge cover-up mode that they did. They did not... you remember they were, they were touting this as having been "for the children," their concern "for the children." And we were all fed this big line of propaganda about how, you know... all of this was because the government was going to move in and take care of these bad guys because of their "abuse of children" and so forth.
Well they couldn't very well say, "We went in there and killed a bunch of them."
HARDER: I understand, also, that there really was no child abuse.
THOMPSON: No. That had already been investigated twice. And that's what was really... really, really terrible, I think, about the -- it's so frustrating to me that this is just a symptom of exactly what is wrong with our country. Our leaders are just lying to us -- flat lying to us -- they're feeding us, literally, propaganda. They're using this close connection with the media that you just described, they're using it to put out information to the media that is completely a lie. And we're buying it. We're listening to it and they were able to manipulate the media that way and create a demonic image of these people that was completely false. And they knew it was false when they were doing it.
HARDER: You know, what concerns me (in retrospect): I saw a documentary, on Martin Luther King's birthday, on PBS, that essentially says -- and it was produced, of course, by the BBC; because we don't have anybody with that kind of guts in the USA -- but what it says (and it even showed the people who had been involved in the conspiracy): James Earl Ray was a "patsy." [i.e. "fall guy," he took the blame for what he did not do.] He didn't pull the trigger. There was a hired gunman that killed Martin Luther King. And the documentary put together the entire plot: who was behind it, who "done it." And it turns out it was a cooperative effort, according to this documentary, of the FBI and the CIA. And of course, this was on public TV.
THOMPSON: One of the researchers on that project has been an informant for me on information that we've been uncovering on Waco. He's former CIA.
HARDER: How many years ago was that?
THOMPSON: Martin Luther King? Good grief, more than 20. [King was assassinated in 1968.]
HARDER: You see what's gonna happen, ladies and gentlemen, is 20 years from now, when two or three generations of children have been "hooked" on MTV, this may or may not show up on PBS -- if there is a PBS. Because we may not have a tax base that would allow such public broadcasting in the next 20 or 30 years.
THOMPSON: To me, that's why it was vital to do this, to get it out. I was in the 4th grade when John Kennedy was killed and I remember that it just completely demoralized the nation. Because nothing like that had ever happened before. The only thing close to that had been the sniper that climbed up on the tower and shot people in Texas. It wasn't an everyday occurrence. It wasn't something that anybody just took for granted. And it completely destroyed... it seemed to just sadden the entire nation that that kind of violence against a public figure could occur. And it was covered up so well, and done so effectively.
And now, you know, just recently, Oliver Stone's movie come out about Kennedy. And I was just determined: No! This is not gonna be like that again. Because that's exactly what's going on here. Yes, there was a conspiracy. Yes, there were a lot of people involved. Yes, there are a lot of people that were involved directly in murdering individuals rather than admit they screwed up. And they're still lying to us. And these people are elected officials. They're government officials that stand up, every day, with a straight face, and lie to the American public.
HARDER: All right. Hang on. We have to do a, a quick break. But I think one of the defendants said this was the first time that American tanks and American troops have killed Americans on American soil. We'll be back.
CHUCK HARDER: Linda Thompson is with me, and she is just finishing up (it'll be finished tomorrow) the new, #2 version of the "Waco, the Big Lie Continues." This is the updated version. It'll be over an hour [in length.] And of course, we're making it available for $19.95 plus $4.00 shipping and handling. And if you want to get an order in so you can get an early copy, you can call 1-800-888-9999.
Now Linda, the point of it is here (you and I were talking on the break) there has been, since day #1, constant damage control. Let's go over this thing.
And the first question I have is: Why in the world? Why in the world would the ATF, the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Bureau of the United States government, why would they load up two cattle cars with guys with the black stocking masks on, who look like hoodlums with guns, and do such an assault? I understand that there were a number of "teams," and that even had team #1 been greeted at the front door with cake and cookies, the rest of the teams would've still gone ahead and busted up the windows, and thrown in the grenades, and invaded the place.
LINDA THOMPSON: If you look at the ATF report, there was no plan whatsoever -- it's in the final Treasury Department report -- there was no plan to walk up and serve the warrant, at all. There were teams that were supposed to break through the front door, there was a team that was supposed to go out into the pits(?) that were out in the yard and grab the people, any people, that might be there, some to flush out the tunnels, while two other teams went on the roof and went in the windows. There was no provision to knock on the door and say, "Hi. We're here with a search warrant." And they didn't do that.
But what I understand is that they were solicited to do that. There were several different people that had motives to "sic" government agencies on the Branch Davidians. For one thing, there was at least one of the agents that was on the raid [who] had two kids that were living in there. Which also, presumably, means his wife was living in there. And if you believe the stories about Koresh sleeping with all the women, I'm sure he wasn't too happy about that.
Then we also have Marc Breault and all the people that you've seen on all the networks, the only people that they interviewed -- so-called "former Branch Davidians" -- they are all followers of George Roden and Marc Breault, the former leaders of Mt. Carmel. (Or Marc Breault never was an actual leader; he tried to be.) Um, but these are disgruntled people that wanted him ousted, that wanted Koresh ousted. So some of them stayed in [Mt. Carmel] while Koresh was there and helped from inside to work to get him out [i.e. overthrown].
So those are the people that contacted Cult Awareness Network. Now Cult Awareness Network is a group that makes the same allegations against every religious group that they target. So people, not being stupid, have figured out that if you say what Cult Awareness Network wants to hear (which they always make the same allegations of child abuse, perverted sex, multiple wives, and brainwashing), Bingo! You've got Cult Awareness Network helping you against your, you know, whatever personal vendetta you may have against the leader of a religious group. And that's exactly what Marc Breault and these other members did, they contacted Cult Awareness Network, they made those allegations that they knew Cult Awareness Network would, you know, just suck right up. And Cult Awareness Network then contacted Texas agencies and reported this so-called "child abuse." Marc Breault contacted the State Department. So we have multiple agencies coming at the Branch Davidians, all on a false basis. But ATF, ultimately, was solicited to do this, and they took them up on it because they needed a "cowboy stunt." Their budget was up for consideration, and each year when their budget is up for consideration they pull some kind of a "cowboy show" type stunt, and this was going to be it.
Now it's interesting to note that Bill Buford(sp?) was primarily the planner of this and he's former Special Forces. And they consulted with Special Forces on every aspect in the planning of the raid. And Special Forces was also there the day that the place burned down. In fact, they were there throughout. And we have the pictures from the day of the fire, of people getting out of tanks wearing berets and military uniforms, even though the government has absolutely denied active-duty military was there. That there's no question they were. So we have, basically, a military assault on a church, precipitated by several different grudges and motivations that were able to enlist the aid of government agencies.
HARDER: Lloyd Bentsen said that there would be no deaths. And he said that he was, essentially, interceding to shut it down, and shut down the nonsense. Now today, we know...
THOMPSON: ...What have they ever done!? What have they ever done.
HARDER: Well, let me, let me say that I don't know what they've done. But the point I'm trying to say is: Once that nonsense occurred, why didn't they just put a big fence up around the place and say to the people inside, "When you feel like coming out, come out." Why did they have to go do this?
THOMPSON: Well, they did put concertina wire all around the house. And as people came out, they didn't... they were not allowing the Branch Davidians to come out. While we were being told that the Branch Davidians wouldn't come out, anyone that came out got a grenade thrown at them. They "flash-banged" them. That's in the final report of the Department of Justice. And they also, on the 24th, announced that anyone that came out would be shot. So they were not allowing people to come out. And why they were doing most of this was to cover up what occurred the first day.
There were 3 of the 4 ATF agents that were killed the day of the raid [who] had been President Clinton's bodyguards during the presidential campaign. One of the things I have investigated concerning that (and why I'm on the road today, in fact, has to do with that) -- these are not the only ones of Clinton's bodyguards that have died. There have been 12, total, that have died in the last year. One of them was found shot along the roadside, and he used to be the head of his [Clinton's] security in Arkansas. And eight others were killed in helicopter or plane crashes together. I think this is a very significant thing to note about the deaths of the ATF agents. Particularly with film footage we have that absolutely shows the Branch Davidians weren't shooting at them. So who was shooting at them? And once our tape came out, ATF's final report reflected a desperate attempt to try to explain what you can see on the tape -- which is an agent on the roof that throws in a grenade and shoots in, into the room where his own people have gone. They have released three different versions of that story at that point: They have said all 3 men died in that room; then they said 2 men died in that room; then they said, "No. Nobody died in that room. We just had coffee with them this morning." Well, the final story comes out with, basically, claiming there were two different teams of men, two different windows -- and don't explain at all how the agents died.
HARDER: Here's what I'm trying to understand: Isn't it a bit of a coincidence that... How many of Bill Clinton's former bodyguards are dead?
HARDER: 12 of...
THOMPSON: There's 25 people connected to Bill Clinton. We have an article that I wrote called "The Clinton Body Count." Uh, 25 people so far, that are documented, that have died around Clinton in the last 18 months. All of them pretty much connected to his finances.
HARDER: Well how... why would that be?
THOMPSON: Well, I really would like an answer to that myself. It's just very coincidental. I don't know 25 people that have died in the last year, do you? And I know a lot of people. In fact, I don't even know half-a-dozen people that have died in the last year. And certainly not close friends of mine, close associates, close business associates. [CfD -- Also, these 25 deaths were violent and/or suspicious in nature.] And that is the common denominator to most of these deaths.
HARDER: But you're telling me that 25 people who had some kind of a personal relationship with Bill Clinton either as a bodyguard, or some other type of relationship, or business relationship -- 25 people have died within the last year?
THOMPSON: That's right. Well now, I should make that 23 'cause 2 of them actually died in July, before January. But the rest of them have been since January, yeah.
HARDER: Since January.
THOMPSON: Uh-huh. [Affirmative]
HARDER: [Stunned] I've never heard of anything like that before.
THOMPSON: Well, I don't know why no one is writing about this. Some of the Whitewater, Madison Bank scandal information is just now breaking the surface, that we've been writing about for over a year. And who that's gonna tie to is Webster Hubbell and Vince Foster. Vince Foster is one of the people that's included in the body count. And he was Clinton's financial manager in Arkansas.
HARDER: All right. Let's do this. Linda, let me take a short break here. For The People continues...
CHUCK HARDER: In the journalism business they call it a "sidebar," and what we're talking about right now with Linda Thompson.
Linda Thompson is an attorney. She became overwhelmingly involved in investigating the Waco matter because it just "rang too many bells" that something was wrong. She was formerly in federal practice as a private attorney, and now she has become an investigator. She has produced a videotape called "Waco I" [sic] [Originally, the videotape was called "Waco, the Big Lie." It may be known colloquially as "Waco I".] which is out, across the USA. Now there is an updated version, which apparently is just beyond question, called "Waco II" [a.k.a. "Waco, the Big Lie Continues] with a lot of new material which we're making available through our For the People bookstore.
Now, Linda, you were talking -- and this is the sidebar, this is the little article that would go over to the side of the main article, would be in a box called "sidebar article," and that is: The Clinton Body Count. You say 25 people that have surrounded Bill Clinton, with some type of a personal relationship with him...
LINDA THOMPSON: Uh-huh. [Affirmative]
HARDER: ...have turned up dead within approximately the last 12 months.
HARDER: Can you name them "off the top of your head" [i.e. from memory] to the best of your ability?
HARDER: And who were they, and how come, and that sort of thing.
THOMPSON: C. Victor Raiser was Bill Clinton's campaign finance chairman, and his son, who was also very active in the campaign, Victor Raiser, jr., were killed in a plane crash, enroute to Alaska, in July of '92. Now that's where the body count begins. And it begins there... I almost didn't include them because I was going to divide it up into post-Presidency and pre-Presidency. The fellow that had called me and suggested that I do this was CIA. And he said, you know, "Do a body count around Clinton." And I said, "What?!" [He answered,] "Just do one. Do one before he became President and do one after he became President." Because I would not have thought of this on my own. I really... it would never have occurred to me to even think of doing this.
HARDER: All right.
THOMPSON: But, in any event, I decided to include Victor Raiser and his son because they were involved actively in the campaign and there were so many campaign people killed.
Uh, there's also Ed Tully. [Paul Tully is the name I have.] He died... he was just found dead in his room. He was only in his early 40s... in his hotel room. He was another campaign finance chairman for Bill Clinton in Arkansas. He was found in his hotel room, dead. There was never a cause of death determined. One of the policemen that found him on the scene ventured that it could have been a heart attack. But that was not determined. And that seems to be a very... uh, that was also the way Paul Wilcher died... an attorney in Washington, D.C. who was investigating many of the same things that I'm investigating, and had received several death threats. He had written a very long affidavit to Janet Reno, 3 weeks before he was found dead in his bathroom, at home, from unknown causes. And he, too, was a young man; shouldn't have been found dead.
Then we have Ed Wilhite... or Jim Wilhite, out of Virginia, who was a very active campaigner... sponsored dinners for Clinton. And his wife works for Hillary once a week. He was another so- called "suicide." He put on a suit, apparently... He was dressed in a suit, and supposedly drove out to the woods, walked three- quarters of a mile, and shot himself.
Not unlike Vince Foster, who was found, you know, several miles away from his car, with a gun he didn't own, "laid out" in a park. Now Vince Foster was the... was one of the legal counsels to the President in the White House. But before that he had always been the Clinton's financial advisor. And at the Rose Law Firm, "Mack" McLarty, who is right now chief of staff (and who, incidentally, was the last person to talk to several of these people before they died), uh, "Mack" McLarty, Webster Hubbell, Vince Foster, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, were all partners together in the Rose Law Firm. [CfD -- Technically, I don't think Bill Clinton was ever an actual partner.]
Another fellow, I believe his name was Shepherd (I may have his name wrong)... but he was a doctor. He and another, and an attorney, were killed in a plane crash... leaving Washington, D.C. after a meeting. This doctor was a personal friend of Clinton's that he had appointed to the health care reform committee. And the attorney was the advisor to the health care reform committee.
HARDER: This was a plane crash.
THOMPSON: This was another plane crash.
Then we have another, uh, a one-person accident. I can't remember the fella's name, I'm sorry. But he, again, was another finance raiser, campaign fund raiser, for Clinton. He was killed in a skiing... Oh! Oh! This is even better than that. He was the chief executive officer. "Mack" McLarty was chief executive officer of ARKLA(?). And this fella was the chairman of ARKLA. And he was killed in a skiing accident. He supposedly ran into a tree and died. He was tied to Clinton through the Madison bank scandal, the Whitewater scandal, and ARKLA -- the Arkansas Development Finance Authority situation -- that is where, the tie-in to Clinton is there. He was not a finance raiser. But what is interesting is [that] he ties directly to "Mack" McLarty.
Then we have Paula Gober, who used to be Bill Clinton's translator. She did translating for the deaf on almost all of his speeches and travelled with him. She's very attractive. She was killed in a one-car car accident. And there was no, uh, no witnesses to the accident and no explanation for the cause of the accident.
Let me think... Who else do we have? Now in terms of bodyguards, we have the three men who were killed at Mt. Carmel on the day of the raid. We have the three fellows that flew him out on the Presidential helicopter crew to the [aircraft] carrier Roosevelt -- the one and only time he ever went to the carrier Roosevelt. Those three fellows that flew him on that helicopter and wouldn't ordinarily have flied together all the time were later killed together in a helicopter crash. The 5 guys who were his escort on that ship -- in other words, his bodyguards on the ship -- were later killed, together, in a plane crash; with no one else in the plane.
That's the ones I can remember off the top of my head.
HARDER: I mean the... I'm sorry. But there's too much... This sounds like it couldn't be a coincidence.
THOMPSON: No it doesn't sound like a coincidence to me either. But we call the article "The Clinton Body Count -- Coincidence or the Kiss of Death?" And people can just leave it up to their, you know, own... Oh! There is a fellow I left out, Jerry Parks, who was the head of Clinton's security in Arkansas. He was found riddled with bullets on a roadway in Jacksonville.
HARDER: In Jacksonville, where?
HARDER: ...Whuh, whuh, why would he be found on a roadway, riddled with bullets?
THOMPSON: Well, he was dead. He's another bodyguard found dead. It's just yet another one of these so-called "coincidences," I presume.
HARDER: Wait. Is this possibly why the Arkansas troopers went public?
THOMPSON: Well, I did interview one of the troopers right before that broke, or right as it was breaking. And I had been told that, yes, they knew about my body count article and, yes, they were concerned.
Uh, there have been some Secret Service people that have come forward, too, that have quit working for the Clintons.
HARDER: Well, hang on a minute. Let's talk about that. And, uh, Linda Thompson will be with us for awhile, folks. So I hope you have your tape recorder running. We'll be back.
CHUCK HARDER: We are back, and we're talking to Linda Thompson. She is an attorney. And we were talking about the Clinton body count: these are all of the people who have died around him; people who have had some type of a relationship with him -- as either business partner/business relationship and/or Secret Service or some type of bodyguard. And you're saying the total deaths now is about 25 with...
LINDA THOMPSON: I've got 25 verified. We have some others that we're working on.
HARDER: ...within the last 12 months.
THOMPSON: Well... Now take 2 off because you can't count Victor Raiser in that count, and his son. Because they were actually in July of '92. So that would put it at 18 months. But everybody else was within the last year now.
HARDER: O.K. Now. You were talking about the Secret Service. Go ahead.
THOMPSON: Well that's one of the things we're working on right now. There have been several Secret Service that have quit, that were working directly for Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton -- because of the fighting between Clinton and his wife, and various things. This is something we're investigating to see if there's any connection there.
There was a real good story, um... well, it's no good to do it if it's just a rumor. Let 'em finish it. Let us finish investigating it. I'll give you an update.
HARDER: O.K. And again, you know, we agree with you. We're not interested in rumors. We're interested in stuff we can pin down.
THOMPSON: Absolutely. I'll tell you what I did think was significant, though, about the people -- the 3 men that were killed... or actually there were 4 men killed in Waco: 3 of them had been bodyguards and the fourth one was from Arkansas. They were... since they were bodyguards... we usually consider the Secret Service as bodyguards. Now the story that the Secret Service came out with -- and the guy that actually gave this story was [Clark(?)], he used to be head of the presidential security team and the former D.C. [District of Columbia] police chief, [Clark(?)]. He said that it wasn't unusual to use ATF agents as bodyguards for the President. I don't buy that story. But after Waco was over and they made Higgins resign, John McGaw was appointed as head of ATF and he is formerly head of Secret Service and in charge of presidential bodyguards.
HARDER: Uh-hum. [Affirmative]
THOMPSON: Now the other story we're consistently hearing (from people that haven't been killed) is that they're offered jobs to keep their mouths shut. We've got that story from one of the former girlfriends of Bill Clinton and we have that same story from the troopers: you know, "If you keep your mouth shut, we'll give you a choice job." I wonder if John McGaw's appointment was for a "job well done."
HARDER: In other words, what you're saying is that, "If you keep your mouth shut, you'll get a nice job. But maybe, if you start talking to somebody, you may wind up dead."
THOMPSON: Or maybe if you don't take the job, you wind up dead. You don't even have to talk.
HARDER: And so -- now I'm speculating -- that this could have been the reason that those troopers came out and went public?
THOMPSON: I think it very well could have been, yes. And I don't think that it has to do so much with ideology -- in terms of whether this is the Clinton administration or anybody else's administration. It's self-preservation, pure and simple.
HARDER: So you're saying that there is probably a whole lot more that's going to come out on this.
THOMPSON: Oh I think absolutely that there is. And right now, the mainstream press hasn't even broken this much. [CfD -- The mainstream press waits until everybody already knows, or is about to know, before they "break" their stories.]
HARDER: Yeah. Well the mainstream press, again, is interested in what we call "neutral stories," stories that do not indicate that there's a failed policy of the government or that the government has murdered people. They're not interested in that type of a story. Just like you didn't see hardly anything about the Scott case, right?
THOMPSON: Oh I don't think we saw a word in Indiana about the Scott case. We found it ourselves because of our news network.
By the way, we do have a computer news network that we'd like anybody that is a system operator or a BBS caller to use. Because it's a wonderful source of information, plus we're able to get information all over the world that way.
HARDER: All right we've got 20 seconds. Give out the number.
THOMPSON: O.K. 317-780-5211.
HARDER: Do it again.
THOMPSON: 317-780-5211. And if you're a system operator, leave us a message. We have an 800 number for system operators.
HARDER: O.K. Linda Thompson, can you stay with me for another hour?
THOMPSON: Um, sure.
HARDER: O.K. Linda Thompson will continue. We're gonna talk more about Waco, and we're going to talk more about the things we've been chatting about. If you want to get that marvellous videotape ["Waco, the Big Lie Continues" a.k.a. "Waco II"] you can call 1- 800-888-9999 around the clock. Thanks, everybody. All the best. May God bless.
HARDER: Hello, everybody. Hi. Chuck Harder, For The People. For those of you who are waiting for Linda Thompson to rejoin us, I am very, very sorry that she will not be with us this hour. What happened is, her informant walked in the door. She's out on, she's out on a, uh, fact finding trip right now and we are not allowed to say where she is. Her informant walked in the door an hour early, for whatever reason, and said to her (on a break), "I gotta talk to you and I gotta get outta here, because my life may depend on it."
She said, "Please, let me go talk to my informant."
I said, "Go ahead."
She has re-scheduled with us for next week, so make sure that you stay with us. We're not sure what day it will be, but make sure you stay tuned to the broadcast. She will be with us next week, and we will finish the conversation.
[CfD -- Thus ends the February 3, 1994 For The People broadcast of Chuck Harder and Linda Thompson. A tape of this interview should be available from For The People, 1-800-888-9999. (The tape costs about $11, but Harder is being harassed by the IRS so the money goes to a worthy cause, i.e. to help keep him on the air). Linda Thompson returned to the Chuck Harder show on February 11, 1994 for the entire show. Look for the CfD transcript of that day's program starting next Monday in "Conspiracy for the Day."]
Final note: I have almost finished the February 11, 1994 transcript. I plan to post and also send it (in its entirety) via e-mail in about a week.
"Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins."