The following interview first appeared in the Conspiracy Nation Newsletter, June 1995 edition. I provide it now, as it offers a valuable sidelight on "Le affaire Whitewater". Also, Andreuccetti's court cases are now reaching a critical juncture; so, to help shine some light on this matter in order that justice may be done, I now release the interview.

Bear in mind that this is not my usual policy to release material from the Conspiracy Nation Newsletter so soon after initial publication. However I am making an exception in this case.

Note that I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or parts of the following. Persons mentioned are invited to send their rebuttals, of reasonable length, to for probable distribution.

-- Brian Francis Redman, Editor-in-Chief

The Andreuccetti Affair

(Interview of Joseph Andreuccetti, Sherman Skolnick, and "Mr. Royce" [not his real name] at the River Flame Restaurant in Calumet City, Illinois in early April of 1995. Skolnick's remarks are sometimes abbreviated and, in one instance, taken from a previous interview.)

Before beginning, a brief preface, excerpted from issue number 12 of the Steamshovel Press:

      Joe Andreuccetti, a subcontractor in Wood Dale, Illinois, is 
      originally from Lucca, in Northern Italy. Andreuccetti's relations 
      include the founder of the Bank of America and the CEO of the Bank 
      of Lucca. Lucca was the staging area for a shipment of a European 
      gold horde to the U.S. It was stolen in 1943 under the direction of 
      General George S. Patton with the help of the Sicilian Mafia. The 
      purpose was prevention of another world war instigated by 
      Europeans, by reducing their mad money. Pro-Nazi Pope Pius XII was 
      receptive to the idea but he wanted some agreement that the gold 
      would return within an appropriate period -- 50 years.

CONSPIRACY NATION: Could you say what year you were born? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: 28th of March, 1940. CONSPIRACY NATION: And you are, according to my understanding, the heir of the House of Savoy?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: One of the heirs. CONSPIRACY NATION: My understanding is, in 1943, there's gold in a cave in Italy. So you would have been in Italy at that time? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Yes.
CONSPIRACY NATION: How did the gold get from a cave in Italy to Addison, Illinois?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Skolnick can answer that better than anybody else. SHERMAN SKOLNICK: There was an OSS unit put in charge of the King

      Emmanuel gold treasure, which also included some historic gold, going 
      back, allegedly, to the time of King Solomon's mines.
        And the one that was part of that unit, keeps, on purpose, running 
      into me: Illinois appellate court judge Anthony Scariano, a former 
      sergeant in the O.S.S. And he was part of the unit that had the gold 
      in a cave! In the last twenty-some odd years, since 1973 (that's 22 
      years), I have interviewed most of the members of his unit. Scariano 
      survived five military and civil investigations in the 12 years 
      following '44, when the gold disappeared.
        So he turns to federal district judge Hubert Will, a senior, semi- 
      retired judge who was walking with him -- and ran right into my 
      wheelchair, on purpose or otherwise -- and he turns to him and he 
      says, "Well. Skolnick's show referred to two people in my unit that 
      murdered the Major and dumped him in a lake."
        And then he went on to describe him. And from that I got to 
      understand that Tony and others felt it was justified to murder the 
      Major. Because the gold in the cave... The Major was gonna do what 
      some would consider treason. He was gonna turn over the Italian gold 
      to the partisans, the Italian... uh, the communistas, the Italian 
      Communist Party!
    CONSPIRACY NATION: But how did the gold get from Italy to Addison, 
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I think the gold was in the United States, somewhere, 
      after the war. It was moved, again, in '81.

CONSPIRACY NATION: But why Addison? Why would they put it in Addison? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: First of all, it's DuPage County. SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Most secure place in the world. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: DuPage County is just like a country of their own, if you start looking into it.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Total national security. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Maybe because of Fermi Lab, and Argonne Lab. Whatever.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Because it's near Chicago. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Because it's near Chicago. Chicago, as we know, is the heart of the United States.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I don't know if any of us know, exactly, how it was

      transported. But he [Andreuccetti] knows about the fact that it is 
      under a building, Building Four.
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Some of the "rumors" is they got it away in 
      submarines, from somewhere -- La'Spezzia -- the harbor La'Spezzia in 
    CONSPIRACY NATION: So they put it on submarines going out of 
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Right. To New York. And from New York, on trucks 
      to Chicago.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: But we believe it was parked some other place in the 
      United States.
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Now I can't say, 100 percent, that that's a true 
      story. But it's alleged, before it got to Chicago, it went somewhere 
      in Arizona. Then, from Arizona, it was transported back to Chicago. 
      Now that is a story. It's not 100 percent credible.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well, the Arizona thing involves the Marcos' gold and 
      the Japanese gold that the Phillippines, which was buried under a 
      coral reef in the Phillippines.

CONSPIRACY NATION: Have you ever met Christian Henning, jr.? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: He is one of my former attorneys, that at a later

      date, he claimed himself to be my partner -- falsely. He's the one 
      that initiated all my problems. Let me put it that way.
    CONSPIRACY NATION: And this was somehow tied in with this 50-year pact 
      with the Vatican, that after 50 years the gold was to be returned.
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: I believe so. Because my late father had a great 
      knowledge of this deal. How did he get a great knowledge? It's a long 
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: It's a long story. His father was a very important 
      military leader.
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: He knew about the agreement between the Church and 
      the Allies.
        Within 50 years, start figuring: the Europeans, the gold was 
      supposed to get back. And if you'll notice, that just about 50 years 
      afterwards, Russia fell apart, okay?
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And they started attacking the Pope's other bank: 
      Banca Nazionale del Lavoro.
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Also, if you notice, just slightly before the 50 
      years, the 50 years, and after the 50 years -- that period of time -- 
      also they've been attacking the Queen of England, in every direction 
      you can think of. Because the British have always been hostile toward 
      (on behalf of the United States), towards the unity of Europe.
        It's all, in the long run, connected to the 50 years.
    CONSPIRACY NATION: Somebody is only as good as their sources, okay? And 
      if you've got good sources, you have good information; if your 
      sources are not that good, your information is not that good. So how 
      much confidence do you have in Mr. Skolnick's sources?
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: I've been spending 3-and-a-half years with Mr. 
      Skolnick. And even though Mr. Skolnick has a habit of repeating a 
      story over and over and over, my way of checking his stories out, and 
      documents, and things that are happening up to this day in other 
      things (my many cases in federal court), have proved Mr. Skolnick 
      absolutely right.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I've been doin' this since 1958, and as I've told you 
      on more than one occasion, we're not infallible, but we have never 

CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah, I know. I know. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Another thing that is very interesting is the

      oddity of my involuntary bankruptcy, that began in the 20th of August 
      of '84 -- still pending to this day, with no success -- that prove 
      ulterior or, some other research is saying that the gold is not 
      really being used, it's not being handled by the people -- it's being 
      collateralized. And, of course, looking upon where the trustee holds 
      my signature (therefore he can do whatever he wants, without my 
      knowledge)... For instance, one of the things they've done, for the 
      last 4 or 5 years, is they hired big, private accounting firms to 
      file my taxes, without ever discussing with me, nor I don't even 
      know the people! Nor are any of the copies in my possession, which 
      I'm having difficulty from the IRS to obtain a copy of my own taxes! 
      Which I never saw, or filed.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Now understand: the problem about the House of Savoy 
      thing is as follows. (In order to understand this, you have to have a 
      profound understanding of historical monarchy.)
        A monarch, or anybody related to him, is not subject to probate 
      law; it passes to the next one, the cousin or so on, without probate. 
      Bankruptcy, generally, does not apply. All the usual laws -- civil 
      laws -- do not apply to monarchy.
        So they have to tie up the land and the signature. If they can do 
      that, they can tie up any descendant's claims that he has something 
      to do with the monarchy.
        At the close of the Second War -- you can consult a group of books 
      called Statesman. What it points to is, at the close of the war there 
      was a rump parliament [i.e., "a group (as a parliament) carrying on 
      in the name of the original body after the departure or expulsion of 
      a large number of its members"], put together by the Allies. 
      [Unclear] made a separate peace with the Allies.
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Correct. In behalf of the new republic coming, and 
      the Church.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah. And they forfeited the House of Savoy's 
      properties, King Emmanuel.
        Emmanuel's son, for a brief time, tried to take the monarchy. But 
      it didn't work. But he had no property!
        There's pending now, in Italy, as we talk, a new law to "un- 
      forfeit" the King Emmanuel property, the House of Savoy. If they do, 
      they've gotta have that gold back, over there.
        In other words, that gold cannot be in Italy if the post-War rump 
      parliament law is still in effect. The House of Savoy is forfeit. So, 
      pending now, is a law to repeal that.
        Well if the House of Savoy is restored, then someone will come 
      forward and says, "Hey. I'm King Emmanuel's third cousin. Bring the 
      gold back, it's Italian."
    CONSPIRACY NATION: So the gold would come back then, and you would be 
      able to step forward and say, "I lay claim to some of this."
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Well, it's a little more complicated than that, 
        I have reason to believe that somewhere, '87 or '88, one of the 
      people that owned one of the six gold pool chairs in London, a fellow 
      by the name of Turullo [tape runs out].
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: In October of '92, after we taped the one-hour show 
      in the cable studio, before it went on the air, someone showed up 
      with a giant back-hoe and they began digging [at the Kingspoint 
      Condominiums, near Building Four.]
        At a later date, Turullo, who we know... I says, "Turullo, you hear 
      anything about the back-hoe?" He says, "Yeah, I paid for it." "Well 
      you kept saying 'There's no gold there, it's all foolish.' Why'd you 
      have a back-hoe?" He says, "Well, we were lookin'." I says, "What'd 
      you find?" He says, "Peat moss." I says, "You know, we could've told 
      you that. You realize what's down under there? An hydraulic thing, in 
      with the lake? That artificial lake goes down, and you and your back- 
      hoe would sink into oblivion!"
        There's an "Egyptian pyramid trick" there.
    CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. Do you have hopes of getting any of this gold 
      for yourself? Suppose that Mr. Andreuccetti prevails. Will Skolnick 
      be getting, say, 10 percent or something like that?

JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Here. Let me explain something to you.

        Even though my great-grandfather was of the nobility, even though 
      there was some kind of a relationship, on my father's grandfather, 
      between him and the House of Savoy, I don't really feel that I will 
      be one of the runners-up, claiming the crown. I strongly believe that 
      this fellow, Turullo, with his power of Church and gangster and 
      Mafia, was able to proclaim me as nominee [straw man] of that gold. 
      I've got reason to believe that. And for the simple reason that I 
      have no, any type of "muscle" power behind me of any form or shape. 
      And through the bankruptcy, they were able to manipulate and control 
      it. And confirmed me, recently, on and on and on, that I've been used 
      all along!

CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. But you just want justice. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: I want justice, and I want what belonged to me back.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Like the Kingspoint Condominiums. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Condominiums, money, my residence, and real estate that I own.
CONSPIRACY NATION: And you are now a U.S. citizen? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: I've been a citizen since 1976. SHERMAN SKOLNICK: By the way: every time his opponents hear a rumor that he is gonna get a passport and leave the country, they go crazy. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: They go nuts.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Absolutely bananas. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: They go nuts.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay, and why would that be? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: If I go back to Italy, they're probably going to lose the power of the signature!
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah. All right. And so... JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Which they have handed to the trustee. CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. And this will work to your advantage? I mean,

      as far as I know, from talking to Mr. Skolnick before, as things 
      stand now, your signature is in limbo.

CONSPIRACY NATION: So, by you getting your signature back... By going to Italy, you get your signature back. What can you do then? SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well there's this repeal law pending! Repealing the

      forfeiture of the King Emmanuel gold. If that passes, at the same 
      time that he's in Italy, then he will have some [claim]...
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Not only that: by the Italian law and 
      Constitution, no matter what citizen of what country you are, if you 
      were born in Italy, the minute you step foot on the soil, they do not 
      recognize other citizenship but their own, Italian citizenship.

CONSPIRACY NATION: And that gives you your signature back. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Probably. There's some technicality that would not...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Let me tell ya a thing that happened in court.

      Remember: there's somewhere between 8 and 10 cases involving him.
        One of the cases, in the federal court, got assigned to federal 
      district judge James Alesia. For 14 months he held back, the judge 
      held back, Joe's enemies from harming him in any way regarding his 
      property, his signature...
        So then, I was going through some back issues of the lawyers' 
      newspaper, and I found out that, in '91, the same Judge Alesia got 
      the merit award pinned on him by the consul-general of the Republic 
      of Italy.
    CONSPIRACY NATION: How would you view the U.S., as compared to Italy? 
      Do you think that the United States, at this point, is more corrupt 
      than Italy? Or would you say that Italy is more corrupt?
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Well, I came to this country when I was 16. And I 
      spent the following 39 years in this country. And certainly this 
      country is not the same country [to] which I came in 1956. One of the 
      things that impressed me about the Italian system today is that, 
      alleged, they have over 60,000 corrupted politicians and mafioso 
      locked up in jails, waiting for trial. I'd like to ask anybody over 
      here: How many do we have in this country locked up? Including the 
      President and his wife, as far as I'm concerned -- and as far 
      as many other people are concerned.
        So that should, at least somewhat, answer your question.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: It appears that, in Italy, nobody is immune. I mean, 
      they grab the head of Fiat, and the Agnelli's and...
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Any time a politician in this country that gets 
      attacked on any kind of scandal or whatever, the first thing he claim 
      is "national security"!
    CONSPIRACY NATION: You were present when Lynette Redmer gave her 
      testimony to Mr. Skolnick, as related in Count One of some papers I 
      have here.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: The Second Amended Complaint. Yeah. September 20th, 
    CONSPIRACY NATION: In your opinion, does Redmer "know her stuff"? Would 
      you say that she's 100 percent credible?

JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: No doubt in my mind. SHERMAN SKOLNICK: She asked inside questions... JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: No doubt in my mind. SHERMAN SKOLNICK: ...that only Joe and I knew the answers to. CONSPIRACY NATION: Anything more you want to say about Lynette Redmer? SHERMAN SKOLNICK: We hope she's still in good health. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Yeah.
CONSPIRACY NATION: So it was kind of courageous for her to testify. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: It was very courageous, for whatever was her

      motive or reason, to do so. You could see that she was pushed by 
      something. There was some kind of a power behind her, to act that 
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: One of the bravest people I've ever run into in 30- 
      some years.
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Like Skolnick say: Let's hope and pray that she's 
      still alive.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I'm afraid to even call down there, to find out. I 
      don't want to know the answer!
    CONSPIRACY NATION: Here's how I understand this case so far: you've got 
      Christian Henning, jr., who falsely claims to be your partner. And he 
      gets a $900,000 loan, using your property as collateral.
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: No. They stole, embezzled, $900,000 from one of my 
      construction closings. And while he was representing, while he was 
      acting as my attorney, they embezzled, stole, $900,000 -- him and 
      some various banks -- to cure some delinquent loans -- totally 
      unrelated to me, direct or indirect -- which related to Henning and 
      other characters associated with him.
        In other words, the bank made mistakes by loaning the money, it 
      couldn't pay it back, so they helped him to set up the loans.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: The thing that put him into bankruptcy -- involuntary 
      bankruptcy -- you know the difference? In other words, he didn't 
      petition, they did.
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: One of the things, one of the reasons that one 
      bank used, that they alleged [to have] borrowed me $320,000, [of] 
      which I never saw a dime -- but Henning did. And my residence and 
      some other real estate were collateralized.
        Well, they were able to foreclose on me, on some of the property, 
      and take it. And I never saw a dime of those loans! So, in other 
      words, some of those loans were made without my knowledge!
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: In other words, he didn't see the proceeds, therefore 
      why is he responsible?
    CONSPIRACY NATION: And do you think some of those loans were fictitious 
      loans? That the bank, maybe, was kind of in on this?
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: The bank was definitely in it! Because they had to 
      cover up for Henning's mistakes and the banks mistakes by borrowing 
      him money while he was in bankruptcy.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Remember: this is [Archbishop Paul] Marcinkus' godson 
      and nephew.
    CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. And then, the way I understand it is, and then 
      the titles to your condos went to who? The bank first?
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Oh, that is a story within itself. They tried to 
      foreclose on account... They begin to start the foreclosure period 
      for the condo, January 1984. They were not able to foreclose upon it 
      because in May of 1985, about 6 months prior to being adjudicated 
      bankrupt, I filed a civil suit. Therefore, the Kingspoint 
      Condominiums were in dispute.
        Somehow, in early '90, nine different times I was scheduled for a 
      jury trial. Which never took place! At the same time...
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Now wait a minute. Make that clear, now. You've got 
      eight different cases pending. What he's talking about are the 
      companion cases, in DuPage, in the state court. He's got damage 
      actions pending against American Heritage, and others -- fraud cases. 
      And nine different times, it was set for trial, okay? And that would 
      have tended to open up the whole matter about the fraud, and 
      Household International, and all of it.
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: So, at that particular time, the banks which I was 
      suing (which, they're the ones that filed my involuntary bankruptcy) 
      come up with a plan...
    ....................["Mr. Royce" joins the table.]....................
      ...and the trustee, and the judge [unclear] this plan which, the 
      people I was suing brought my case to the state court for $150,000. 
      Against my uh... I was objecting to it, okay?
        And the peculiar thing that happened, that a couple of gangsters 
      bought it, through a bank auction, they bought the property, okay? 
      One of them wound up dead, another one wound up in jail. At the same 
      time, the property was never foreclosed -- 'cuz it was not part of 
      the estate, the bankruptcy estate. And before you know, today, when 
      you go to the Chicago Title and Trust, to look for those transfer of 
      records or whatever...

JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: comes on the screen saying, on the computer

      screen, "Documents accidentally erased. No longer available." Okay? 
      And this day, you can check that out yourself.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And that supports Lynette Redmer's statement that her 
      boss has got his property.
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: At the same time, two trusts appear on the LaSalle 
      National Bank, which we can't find out who's the beneficiary because 
      we're already applying for it and the judge quashed the subpoena, 
      okay? So then, Redmer admits that her boss is the beneficiary of that 
      trust, and he owns the property.
    CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay, and this... about $50 million or so was parked 
      at Resolution Trust Corporation [RTC] because they anticipated that 
      you were gonna win your claim?
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: No, no, no. They put up the money, and parked it with 
      Household International. It's federal money.

JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Fifty-eight point four [58.4], million. SHERMAN SKOLNICK: We're apparently the only ones that have the documents.
CONSPIRACY NATION: You mean, RTC had this money... SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah, that's part of the merger. They facilitated the

      merger of the defunct American Heritage S&L with Household 
      International, through their subsidiaries, Household Bank -- although 
      they use the word "bank", they're actually a savings & loan. Okay? 
      They are under the jurisdiction...
    "MR. ROYCE": See, American Heritage was taken over by Land of Lincoln, 
      and then merged with Household.
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah. He's putting in a technical thing there. There 
      was an intervening step. But Household got to be the merging force 
      with American Heritage. There was an intermediate step: there was 
      Land of Lincoln Savings & Loan. It ended up with Household 
    "MR. ROYCE": Let me explain. American Heritage was goin' out of 
      business. Land of Lincoln took over American Heritage. And then Land 
      of Lincoln merged with Household.

CONSPIRACY NATION: So where'd the $50 million come from? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: From the Federal Home Board [Federal Home Loan Bank Board].
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And a step-sister of that is the RTC. CONSPIRACY NATION: But they had set it aside in anticipation of... JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: In anticipation of several lawsuits pending against American Heritage Savings & Loan. CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. So it wasn't set aside in anticipation of any claims that you had.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: I was the strongest claim! SHERMAN SKOLNICK: He's the only pending claim. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: And the only pending claim, to this day. All the other claims were worn out.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: The other claims were of no consequence. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: They were worn out! They were worn out. CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay, but then the money was needed, to hide a bank embezzlement down in Arkansas...
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Yeah. Arkansas. CONSPIRACY NATION: And so, it disappeared to Arkansas. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Correct.

And I never had my day of trial. CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. In one of these papers I've got here, it says,

      "That defendants have damaged Andreuccetti in his person and 
      property." I can see how they've damaged you in your property. How 
      have they damaged you in your person?
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well that's a legal term. It means "personal rights". 
      Civil rights, human rights...
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Human rights. Let me give you an instance.
        As far as we're concerned, the case in Wheaton [, Illinois], in the 
      state court, is still pending. Between the 15th and the 20th of 
      November, 1993, Hillary [Clinton] was shredding paperwork. The 17th 
      of that month, the Sheriff of DuPage and his goons came over, at 
      gunpoint, with two semi-, panel trucks: movers...

SHERMAN SKOLNICK: While he was making a video production! For the show. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: While I was making a video production, okay?

        Not only I got evicted, but as you know, an eviction, all 
      belongings they put out front on the lawn. In this case, they seized 
      everything and, plus, there's some private cards with different 
      "Skolnick TV Products" and documents of mine, went in private cars!
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Do you get the point? He volunteers to transport our 
      cable tapes to the suburbs. They took the cable tapes, and some of 
      the documents, away in private cars -- which are not provided for 
      under any eviction law of any kind.

CONSPIRACY NATION: And these are the people that came at gunpoint? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: The DuPage Sheriff!

        I recognized the main goon. I believe that he was the ex-Chief of 
      Police in Addison.
    "MR. ROYCE": You see, normally, when they evict you out of a house -- 
      okay? -- they empty the house out and they put all the stuff out on 
      the sidewalk. In this case, they took it all away in a van -- it was 
      pourin' rain that day -- and then later on, at the end of the day, 
      they came in and dumped all the stuff out on the sidewalk.

SHERMAN SKOLNICK: But they never returned the documents, and the tapes! JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: They never returned the documents pertaining to

      the $58 million from the Federal Home Board [FHLBB]. Even though I am 
      still in possession of the copy of the documents -- you follow me?

CONSPIRACY NATION: It's a complicated case. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Very complicated. SHERMAN SKOLNICK: The ones that originally bought his property was a

      guy who was, on other occasions, a bankruptcy trustee: Wallace 
      Lieberman. Instead of auctioning the property, he bought it himself, 
      together with Robert Belavia. Belavia lived across the road, in 
      Kingspoint West.
        Now, what's interesting about it is, Redmer admitted that she 
      worked on the Belavia case and that her bosses [at IRS] were anxious 
      to speed up the case, to get rid of Belavia.
        So Belavia went to jail, Lieberman went to the cemetery. 
      Lieberman's son (after we started raising Hell with the FBI) was 
      arrested for treason -- I mean, the thing got worse and worse and 
      worse!! [laughs] I mean... And, after Lieberman died, we checked his 
      probate -- where they got a list of property, right? The property is 
      gone! He listed only his house; he didn't list Kingspoint.
        So Redmer was correct! The property disappeared into some "black 
      hole"! The land titles are gone, and her boss has got the property.
    CONSPIRACY NATION: One final question: John E. Gierum was your 
      attorney, right?

JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: At one time, he was my bankruptcy attorney. CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. Any comments you've got on Gierum? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Today I know that Gierum, first of all, is a

      Jesuit. Second of all, he (I don't know if Skolnick told you) is a 
      senior litigator for the SBA [Small Business Administration] loans. 
      He's a crony of Hillary [Rodham Clinton]. We know that. And he admits 
      that the money [$58 million] was secretly wired to Arkansas!
    SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And that the White House is trying to frame him for 

JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: And the White House tried to frame him for that. CONSPIRACY NATION: And, but when you say he is a Jesuit, you mean he's a priest!? Or he's connected with them? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Well... He [Skolnick] can explain better... SHERMAN SKOLNICK: There were three lawyers that were practicing

      together: R. Barton Kalish (who was his lawyer), Forrest Ingram, and 
      the third guy is John E. Gierum. But the group has split up.
        Gierum is now with a group of lawyers in Park Ridge who represent 
      international bankers. And Gierum has got his office inside there.
        And it was outside that office, that he got into [Andreuccetti's] 
      Jeep and sat and talked about his problem, with us: that they are 
      framing him (this was January '94), and that he was worried that they 
      were gonna send him to jail. (And you heard the little interview we 
      did: where he said the law, and the facts, cannot protect him, 
      because it's a set-up.)
    JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: And he also said, he was very concerned, "They're 
      gonna send me to jail,"...

CONSPIRACY NATION: You were a witness to that, though? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Oh yeah.

        ..."One of them is connected to my little five-year-old daughter," 
      and it was all kinds of concern. I mean, he was like a man that was 
      ready, just about, to be shot!

CONSPIRACY NATION: And you believed his confession. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Absolutely! You can look a man in the face, [and

      tell] whether he's lying or telling the truth. You can see it in the 
      eyes. He was a man practically in despair at the time.

Brian Francis Redman "The Big C"

Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"