("Quid coniuratio est?")
CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE DEATH OF COLONEL JIMMY SABO
Tom Valentine's guest on Radio Free America (Shortwave, 5.065
MHz, mon-fri, 9 pm cst) on November 14, 1994 was private
investigator Gene Wheaton. Mr. Wheaton has been looking into the
suspicious death of the late Colonel Jimmy Sabo. Following is my
transcription of that interview.
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Now who are his superiors, then? These guys have to be under
Well they were. The commanding general and the chief of staff
were both forced into retirement over this thing. And...
- That's a pretty easy way out!
- Oh yeah. Well it had to go quietly because there was such a
scandal involved in this whole operation.
- Yeah, but you see what a strange country we have? We get a huge
media coverage over some females complaining about being
manhandled in a hotel with a bunch of Navy fliers, and it covers
the media for months and years; we get some men who are killers
and murderers and dope peddlers and everything else, with a
Marine Corps uniform, and we don't get any coverage.
- Well that's the, the turning the American public's brain to
cottage cheese so they don't look at the big issues. One of the
major covert operations these guys in Washington had going (and
again, this is sort of the "lunatic fringe"; it's not the
mainstream people. Because the mainstream CIA and Pentagon people
do not agree with what's going on.) They set up an operation
called "Operation Screw Worm", built this secret airbase down on
the Mexican-Guatemalan border and were moving weaponry down to
Peru, and being... ostensibly to furnish to the Peruvian
government to fight "Shining Path" revolutionaries and the drug
smugglers. But in fact, when the consignments would get down
there, the covert operators would break 'em up, sell to
both sides to keep agitation going and to keep the
business of covert operations and weapons movements viable. It's
the entire covert operations sub-culture, and the movement of
weapons around the world. And these paramilitary, low-intensity
conflict operations are strictly business with these men.
- They don't want to go back home and run a 7-11 store.
- I've heard that story so many times. And it's so true, I believe.
My guest is Gene Wheaton. The subject: the death of Colonel Jimmy
Sabo, and the Marine Corps base at El Toro being involved, and
this kind of drug smuggling operation. I'm Tom Valentine, this is
Radio Free America.
We are back, live. We're talking with Gene Wheaton, [an]
investigator that's been a guest on this show before and probably
the most credible of among all the investigators into the
corruption that we've found in this country. Gene, I have to say
that, personally, I find you one of the most credible in the
country. And I certainly respect what you are doing.
- ...I appreciate that.
- Now. If anybody wants to join us out there, you can call in --
questions, comments -- 1-800-878-8255. You don't have to, but
if you'd like to, you may. 1-800-878-8255.
Before I go any further: 32 C-130 planes. That's a lot of big
planes. And how big is a C-130?
- Well it's the huge, 4-engine, turbo-prop that you see, painted
olive-green, that goes into war zones all over the world. It's
the work horse of the U.S. military.
- Yes, and it carries an awful lot of cargo.
- It can haul tanks. It can haul, I don't know, 50, 60, 80 thousand
pounds of cargo. It's the real work horse, going clear back to
the Vietnam War.
- And they cost a lot of money to build.
- They cost over $10 million to build. And even these used ones
were worth well over 5, 6, 7 million dollars apiece. And they,
they... The covert operators laundered these through the
Department of Agriculture with phony papers showing that they
were gonna be water droppers for the forestry service. And then
they wrote them off as scrap metal at $15,000 apiece and gave 'em
to the covert operators.
- Was that ever investigated in Congress? The fact that somebody
laundered this much hardware through the Agriculture Department?
- Yes. Congress... While I was in the middle of the Sabo
investigation, congressman Charlie Rose of North Carolina
contacted me, and asked me to assist his office in looking into
these claims, and sent me the files on them -- which I
researched. And that's how we tracked some of these airplanes
back to the Marine Corps air station at El Toro, and down to
the Gulf War. I've photographed half a dozen of 'em out here on
the west coast for the congressman.
- Was Mr. Hasenfus in one of them?
- No, Hasenfus was in a C-123 that...
- ...came out of the same group. But that was years before. These
all were stolen between 1988 and 1991.
- Oh, these came in the Bush watch.
- Yeah. And there's a whistle blower pilot up in Oregon, who has
filed a whistle blower lawsuit, who can, you know, recover a
certain amount if he discloses corruption and loss of funds for
the government. That case has been in federal court under seal,
and it was just unsealed in the federal court in Portland,
Oregon, Friday, November the 4th. And he and I have been sharing
information on this case. And he's testified before the
congressional committees on them.
- I'd love very much to have him come aboard as a guest, because
this show is heard in Portland, Oregon.
- I think that he would be willing to do it. And his name is Gary
Eitel -- E-i-t-e-l.
- Well I will get that contact from you, off the air. I appreciate
it very much.
So. We know that Jimmy Sabo was murdered. Are we going to be able
to level any murder charges?
- Well, the... After I went back to Washington the second or third
time and briefed the Department of Defense, Criminal
Investigation Service, and the inspector-general's office, they
re-opened the case. But it appears, on the surface, that they're
more interested in, I guess you might call it "damage control" or
limiting the embarrassment to the government. Because the last
time they were out here, two or three weeks ago, they sent a team
out to interview me, they interviewed people here in southern
California. They went up to South Dakota and interviewed Colonel
Sabo's brother, Dr. David Sabo, who is a world famous neurologist
(and he's my client). And they refused to discuss the
circumstances of the murder, for 2 days interviewing him, and a
day interviewing me, stating that all they were interested in was
what we knew about covert operations and who our sources were.
- Well that, that is a real tip-off! Isn't it?
- Yes, it is. The sad thing is, the head of that team is a 30-year
friend of mine who served with me in C.I.D. [Army, Criminal
Investigations Division], and now he's a civilian in D.O.D.
[Department of Defense] that has to serve his civilian masters.
- He's not very happy with what's going on, is he?
- No, he's not. But he's limited in what he can do.
- Gene, I understand (and you're a fellow that's close to this), I
understand that there is a great deal of "resentment" (for want
of a better word) among truly patriotic, hard-working Americans,
who have been watching this kind of thing for years and years in
- That's absolutely true. In fact, when I first got involved in the
investigation of the Iran-Contra affair, it was because a group
of very dissatisfied Pentagon officials and CIA officers came to
me (as I was already retired from military), and they were in
the service of the government and they said, "We can't do
anything or we will destroy our careers and hurt our families.
But will you do it for us?" And that's where I networked in and
started my investigations of all this stuff.
- Yes, you have been in it a long time.
All right! My guest is Gene Wheaton, an investigator
extraordinaire, if the truth be known. Probably knows much more
than he can tell. 1-800-878-8255, if you'd like to join us. I'm
Tom Valentine, this is Radio Free America.
O.K. We are back, live. My guest is Gene Wheaton. He is an
investigator. He has had many, many years of experience, and
plenty of credentials to do what he does.
And you actually got recruited by military buddies of yours when
you were out of the military. And [you] started lookin', back
in the days of Iran-Contra.
- That's correct.
- I remember the last time you were on. You said something about
helping "The Opponents for Ollie North". Well Ollie North got
beat. Can you take any credit?
- I certainly sit back here very pleased that he got beat. I... The
man is part of that "lunatic fringe". I equate him to corporal
Adolph Hitler, before the German government was taken over. They
really want a secret police state! He and his little fringe group
that he runs with. And I, I did what I could. They started a
disinformation program about 30 days before the election, to try
to get the national media to stop talking to me. But I was in
there working, to the last day.
[...to be continued...]
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