("Quid coniuratio est?")
CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE DEATH OF COLONEL JIMMY SABO
Tom Valentine's guest on Radio Free America (Shortwave, 5.065
MHz, mon-fri, 9 pm cst) on November 14, 1994 was private
investigator Gene Wheaton. Mr. Wheaton has been looking into the
suspicious death of the late Colonel Jimmy Sabo. Following is my
transcription of that interview.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Well I understand that.
Now, when you began investigating the Iran-Contra affair, then
you ran into Ollie North right off the bat.
That's right. In the actual beginning, '85, you know I didn't
have any objection to covert operations, as long as they were in
the interest of national security and were legal and
congressionally approved and conformed to the Constitution. But
within several months, the folks I mentioned who asked me to help
'em started feeding me information about renegade operations,
about the theft of billions of dollars worth of taxpayer paid-for
weapons out of U.S. military stockpiles and NATO stockpiles being
sold, and the money being stashed in off-shore bank accounts: the
weapons going to both our friends and our enemies, just to keep
turmoil going in the world; and laundered drug money being used
for covert operations.
In the beginning, I thought the contractor pilots were cheating
on the National Security Council and Ollie North's people, and I
briefed CIA director Bill Casey and Ollie North's staff and the
Pentagon people, in early '86.
- I'll bet they were really surprised that somebody was tellin' 'em
what they were doin'!
- Yeah! [laughs] I was a little naive. They said, "Oh, really?" And
then they all denied being involved. And thinking that I was only
one guy out there, they told me if I thought I could expose it,
to go ahead. So [they] sorta "threw down the gauntlet". But it
wasn't just me. It was a large group of patriotic people that
were helping me, and we...
- A lot of those folks ended up in jail, did they not?
- Well... The wrong, not many of the right people ended up in
jail! There was...
- Well I thought some of these guys who blew the whistle and ended
up in jail were pretty much on the right side.
- There were some people who ended up dead; some ended up in jail.
But the ones who should have been in jail are the ones walkin'
free today. [CN -- i.e., many of Wheaton's informants, the
"whistleblowers", were either murdered or imprisoned. But the
actual guilty parties avoided justice.]
- Isn't that how it works.
No, I was thinking of... There was a fellow, named Martin, who
called me from jail in the south side. There's a Customs agent
named "Ayers(sp?)" who went to jail trying to put the figure of
the drug operations and the drugs and guns operations of the
- He was a former special forces officer who was working under the
south Florida "task force" of narcotics. That's Brad Ayers.
- Yes! Brad Ayers, yeah!
- His credibility was destroyed by disinformation, much like they
tried to do mine. The only thing [that] saved me is my strong
family background, my friends, and my military and police
reputation. But Brad really had a rough time, and is still
having a rough time.
- Yes. In fact, I've known about Brad for many years, and we were
neighbors up in St. Paul, Minnesota. And I will be... I've never
brought him on as a guest! One of these days I may let him tell
his whole story. It's a hair-raiser.
- It certainly is. He's got a major, major... He had to fight
through the legal system in a lawsuit to try to obtain records
out of the CIA and Customs and U.S. Marshalls Office about bad
stories that were spread about him. He's got the documentation
now. I think he's taking some legal action.
- Yes, he's tryin'. That's why I'm sayin' I'd like to get him back
on the show.
Now we had a character that came on this show; his wife came on
this show many times. He is said to be still in prison, over in
Austria, but I believe he's sittin' there, countin' his money
-- and that is Gunther Russbacher(sp?).
- Yes... I've avoided getting involved in that thing because I know
very little about him. Plus, I don't... The problem with Gunther
Russbacher that I see -- he's called me 2 or 3 times, while he
was in jail, but I've never met him...
- Uh-huh [understands].
- ...and I would try to pin him down on things. But like a lot of
guys involved in the covert operations community, these guys, as
part of their trade, are pathological liars, and they will
intermix the truth with fiction. When the truth would help 'em,
they will still tell you a lie. And he had so many conflicting
stories that he was saying to me that I couldn't determine
whether he was real or a phony. So I...
- It drove ya nuts, didn't it!?
Yeah, he even... Uh, Ross Perot tried to get some facts out of
him and couldn't do it.
- I understand that. Yes.
- Yeah. O.K. Now. I'm gonna ask your opinion on one of 'em. I
believe that Inslaw, [the] theft of that software, is one of the
biggest crimes in the history of American government. Right up
there... Iran-Contra are all part of it. And I'm just wondering
if you've had any, run across anything of that Inslaw case.
- Well, I have. Early on, Bill Hamilton contacted me. And I've had
several meetings with him, back in Washington, and gave him a
little advice. It's a very convoluted thing, but it was one of
the biggest rip-offs by the U.S. Justice Department and the
intelligence community [that] I have ever seen in my life. Every
time a judge ruled in his favor, that judge lost his job.
I know the people who actually sold his software overseas. And
I've given that information to him (I don't want to discuss it
over the air). But...
- Yes. I understand.
I'm still following the Inslaw case. And of course, I've had
another one, just like Gunther Russbacher, in Michael
- Some of them, I think, may be covert operators that just can't
distinguish the truth from fiction. And some of 'em are "ringers"
that they send in on you just as confusion people, so that you
don't know which way to go.
- Aren't they good at that.
All right. My guest is Gene Wheaton. Subject: investigating the
kind of corruption that goes on in our government. If you'd like
to join us, 1-800-878-8255. I'm Tom Valentine. This is Radio
All right, we are back, live. My guest is Gene Wheaton.
You know, Gene, I'm sitting here as a journalist and a co-author
for many, many people; I'm saying, "Have you arranged for your
- [laughs] No. I'd have to write it as fiction. Nobody'd believe it
as the truth!
- I think maybe you and I'd better talk. Because I have worked with
people before on this kind of book, and yes, we should talk.
You're not fiction. And I think people who listen can tell
there's credibility here.
Fred. Picayune, Mississippi. You're on with Gene Wheaton.
- Hello, Tom! Nice to talk with ya. And good afternoon... Colonel,
Colonel Wheaton, is it?
- Chief warrant officer.
- Chief warrant officer.
- O.K. I helped pull a whole bunch of marines [unclear] the 10th
Corps on the beach at [unclear] back in December of 1950, and so
consider myself a friend of the armed forces, since I was a
member of the United States Navy.
But a question I have for you is, I happened to read a piece in
the Louisville Courier-Journal, on the front page, about -- I
guess it was the third week of January, 1987 -- in which a pilot
who had been caught hauling weapons down to, I think it was...
uh, Honduras -- I think it was Honduras -- and was bringing back
loads of drugs!! He said it happened every trip! And he said that
he would normally land on some deserted strip in Florida, in the
middle of the night -- which he was on his way to doing, and he
got word to go to Opalanca(?) [CN -- apparently a military
airbase of some sort]. And he said, "Opalanca! You know what I'm
carrying?!" And they said, "Don't worry. It's all taken care of."
And this was brought up during Oliver North's appearance, shortly
after in, I forget... February, when he first appeared. There
were a group who came into the hearing room with a huge banner.
They unrolled this thing mentioning the drugs, so that the
congressmen could see it. And they were dragged out of the
building right away!
Do you know anything... I was wonderin', could you tell us
anything about that or...
- I was in Washington, D.C. when that banner was disclosed. It was
flown, in the room there.
- Yeah. Unfurled it, huh? [chuckles]
- ...I saw it [unclear]. I was watching the hearings. It was the
House hearings and they, these people walked in. And all of a
sudden you've got this banner stretched out across the room...
- Well Gene saw it! Go ahead, Gene. Tell us what happened.
- ...and I will hang up and listen.
- Well, there was a... This is just one of several. We have several
pilots, who are former covert operations pilots, that are coming
forward now because of the Sabo case and because of the 32 C-
130s. Some of them flew those C-130s. They're just now hearing
about our investigation and it's starting to come out of the
These guys were patriots, former military and Air America,
CIA pilots, who were told that flying weapons down was covert
operations, and flying drugs back would be "DEA stings". But they
flew many, many missions and no sting operations ever happened.
And then many of them became whistle blowers. Some of them were
put in prison... uh, falsely, with evidence withheld at their
trial, to shut them up.
But we do have, we do have a few of 'em that have come out of the
[...to be continued...]
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
If you would like "Conspiracy Nation" sent to your e-mail
address, send a message in the form "subscribe conspire My Name"
to firstname.lastname@example.org -- To cancel, send a message in the
form "unsubscribe conspire" to email@example.com
Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et
pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"