SHERMAN SKOLNICK -- WHITEWATER UPDATE
Tom Valentine's guest on Radio Free America (Shortwave, 5.065 MHz, mon-fri, 9 pm cst) on November 30, 1994 was independent researcher and founder of the Citizens Committee to Clean-up the Courts [CCCC], Mr. Sherman Skolnick. Note that views expressed in the following do not necessarily reflect my own views or those of Conspiracy Nation.
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And now, the newspaper that "tells it like it is" presents Tom Valentine.
Hello, everybody. Welcome back, to Radio Free America.
And here we are: the third of the last three broadcasts at daytime; gonna be shifting to night, coming Monday. (That will be December the 5th, I believe.)
So, today, because the Senate is busy debating GATT, and because we have "GATT-ed" ourselves out -- we've made our case, now if... The jury's out and if the prostitutes in our Congress do not listen to those who put 'em there but go to those who are payin' 'em, then GATT will pass [and] there's not much we can do about it.
So. With that in mind, very much like yesterday's show, I'm reaching into Radio Free America's "bag of tricks", if you will, to some real classics. And I have a group of guests that give this show something that no other radio talk show can have, really.
So on the other end of the phone, out of Chicago, is Sherman Skolnick, the Committee to Clean-up the Courts. And if you will recall, a long time ago Sherman was a guest on this show and he predicted certain things about Whitewater.
So we're going to go back and look at the President of the United States and Arkansas and this scandal that has lost a lot of press coverage. Because of other events, we haven't heard much about Whitewater and so forth.
So Sherman, welcome back to Radio Free America.
Good afternoon to all of your listeners. I'm pleased to be on your show again, Tom.
More than a year ago, I said exclusively on your show that a federal grand jury, meeting in Little Rock [, Arkansas] and elsewhere, was in a position to target, for federal criminal charges, President Clinton and the first lady. And I'm sure some people shook their heads to say, "Hey. This fellow Skolnick, from Chicago: does he know what he's talking about?"
Well, I've been doin' this type of work, heading up a research and investigation group, for more than 32 years. And we know what we're doin'. A number of high-level judges have gone to jail because of our work. And we've "got our ear to the ground."
Now, the Los Angeles Times has started a preliminary story which has been summarized, for example, in the Chicago Tribune, November 25th, where they say that there are about to be Whitewater indictments by special counsel Kenneth Starr, including, reportedly, against Arkansas governor Jim "Guy" Tucker...
...former U.S. Associate Attorney General Webster Hubbell, which is third in command, and others.
But notice the paragraph: "But there is no indication so far that Starr is considering seeking indictments against President Clinton or first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton."
Well [laughs], I tell ya somethin': at the very minimum, the President and the first lady are going to be, what is known in law, shown as "unindicted co-conspirators", which is just a hair away from an actual federal criminal indictment. In other words, they're part of the deal, but for whatever practical or other reasons they are not named as actual federal criminal indictments. And that, apparently, is where the matter stands.
But in order to understand the whole thing, we have to back up a little bit. And here are some key dates that I want your listeners to carefully consider.
July 19th, 1993. An elite unit of the FBI, under the direct supervision of the FBI director who, up to that day, was William Sessions. They were investigating high-level criminality. And they had targeted... well, they had come across information showing criminal offenses committed by Bill Clinton and his wife.
Back live, Radio Free America. We're talking with Sherman Skolnick. And there are, evidently, developments in the grand jury situation down in Little Rock, Arkansas and the new special prosecutor, Mr. Starr. And not a lot has been published in the major media, although, Sherman, you're sayin' that the Los Angeles Times have started it.
So let's go back to these important dates now.
But getting back to the dates that I mentioned on the previous program but I'm going over it. July 19th, 1993. An elite unit, set up under the direct supervision of the FBI director at that time, William Sessions, had uncovered information of a criminal nature against the President and the first lady. What happened was, later that day, Sessions was "sacked" [i.e. fired] on what some feel were frivolous reasons: that he had failed to buy a separate plane ticket for his wife, who once or twice accompanied him on a plane for official business. He was "sacked" for that.
The next morning [i.e. July 20, 1993], a federal magistrate in a pending criminal case in Little Rock -- U.S. vs. David Hale. Hale was, at one time, a municipal judge, a state municipal judge, in Little Rock. In that case, the magistrate, working under the auspices of the district judge, ordered the release uh, divulging, of certain records that Clinton and his wife had which were in the custody of Vincent Foster, jr., White House aide. (Most people miss the point that, at that point, Foster was the personal attorney of the President and the first lady.)
That was the morning of July 20th, '93. That afternoon, something happened to Vincent Foster, jr.
Now later that afternoon, on the 20th, something happened to Foster. Some contend it was a suicide; others claim it's a murder. Whichever way you pick...
And then his office was ransacked while the FBI and others were not allowed to enter the office. They were kept in the hallway at, you know, away. And [Bernard] Nussbaum and others who were important in the White House at that time (but they later resigned) ransacked the office and took away records and said that the FBI cannot look at them.
He got involved in U.S. Small Business Administration loans of a massive amount. He contends that he was forced to "funnel" the money to Bill Clinton...
In other words, Hale says, "I'm not going to jail for something that Clinton got the money." You see what I'm sayin'?
O.K. But wait a minute.
January '94. A senior litigation attorney of the U.S. Small Business Administration, in Chicago, a close crony of the Rodham family of Park Ridge (a northwest suburb of Chicago. And the Rodham family, Hillary's family, is originally from Park Ridge), uh he kept following me around the courthouse. I'm a journalist and I come often to the courthouse, the state and federal courthouse, to watch cases, to interview people, and so on.
And I know this lawyer, and he kept, sort of, "dogging me". He'd stand near me and make small talk. Most lawyers are afraid of me because of our cable TV show here that "fingers" crooked lawyers and judges, so most of 'em won't be seen with me at all. But he kept standing near me.
Anyway, to make a long story short, I ended up with a former client of this man, John E. Gierum, of Park Ridge. I ended up outside his office in a vehicle. And he sat in the front seat of the car, next to me. And he confessed to me that the White House was in the works [of] trying to "frame" him on a series of situations amounting to millions and millions and millions of dollars.
And I said, "Well, you're a skilled lawyer." He says, "It won't help me." He says, "You'll probably soon get a collect call from me from a far-away jail." He says, "If they set about to 'frame' me, nothing can help me."
And among other things we discussed (as we had discussed exclusively on one of your earlier programs), the mysterious transfer of $50 million from a Resolution Trust Corporation [RTC] contingency fund...
All right, well hold it. $50 million slips away from a contingency fund. And we will return to this.
My guest is Sherman Skolnick. I'm Tom Valentine, this is Radio Free America.
All right, now we're talkin' with Sherman Skolnick. And of course we're talking about Bill and Hillary Clinton, and they're, they're tangled into Whitewater (which has not been talked about much.) And right now, we're going back over old news, building up -- I assume, Sherman, we're building up to some new wrinkles on this.
Lilly, in Picayune, Mississippi. What's the matter with you, Lilly?
[...contention for who will speak...]
Hold it just a minute. Bush wasn't President at that time. Reagan was. Why is Reagan never mentioned in all this kind of stuff?
[...contention for who will speak...]
I would prefer to use this time on the air to set forth, step by step, what we are about to summarize here about...
Now. These things... Also, Mr. Gierum supervised this $50 million, $58 million, RTC contingency fund which disappeared from Chicago. And $50 million of it ended up in Little Rock to "make good" the $47 million that disappeared at the hands, some believe, of Hillary and Bill, from Madison Guaranty Savings and Loan. There's...
All right, so there's a $50 million gambit involved here.
We've got a break coming up, Sherman. But we're gonna continue with Sherman Skolnick, folks. And we're summarizing now. We'll get to the latest developments before we're done.
I'm Tom Valentine. This is Radio Free America.
All right, we are back. We have Sherman Skolnick.
And Sherman, now we've got a nice good block of time for you to go right ahead and get us into the meat of this thing.
And Gierum, Gierum supervised that 58 million.
Now 50 million, of that, disappeared, and ended up with RTC, Little Rock, to underwrite the 47 million that disappeared there from Madison Guaranty Savings and Loan, of which a grand jury has been investigating and, purportedly, is prepared to accuse Bill and Hillary of misfeasance and bank embezzlement.
In January of this year , under the circumstances I told you, he kept coming up to me when I came to the courthouse. He'd run from the other end of the courthouse, right up to me, and stand right next to me and start making small talk! (Which was unusual.)
Now where is he today?
We give out his number, however, though it's not listed. It's xxx-xxx-xxxx. He's in Park Ridge.
That's strange, for a lawyer to have an unlisted number.
So, I ended up in front of his [Gierum's] office. And he confessed to me in the presence of a former client, as a witness, that the White House is trying to "frame" him about this $50 million and these other matters involving Clinton, and that he won't be able to defend himself, even though he's a skilled lawyer, because the thing is "wired", as they say. In other words, he was fearful that [the "fix" was in]... The only thing is that maybe, if I publicize it, maybe I can prevent him from getting "framed".
So we took the various points of his confession, we wrote it down just as he said it, and we put it into the record of this former client of his who's got a case pending. We sent the copy under the rules, as provided, to Mr. Gierum. And when it came up in court, Gierum didn't dispute it. So in a civil case, it's taken to be admitted. 'Cause when the time comes for him to challenge it, if he doesn't challenge it, it's taken to be admitted. Those are the rules. [CN -- But by "admitted" does Skolnick mean admitted into evidence or also an admission that the confession is true?]
So there is Gierum's confession in January '94 that relates to the current situation where sources close to Kenneth Starr are saying that there's a series of indictments coming, but that so far they're not gonna indict the President and the first lady. That is, not yet!
Now we happen to know a great deal about why they're delaying indicting the President and the first lady. First of all, they invoke "national security"; they feel the country is gonna be turned upside-down if the President is under indictment. I can't... The nearest that ever came to that was in '74 when a District of Columbia grand jury voted an indictment against Nixon which was squelched, and it wasn't discussed until 5 years later that there was such an indictment when Nixon resigned. Most people didn't realize that when Nixon was pardoned there had been a secret federal criminal indictment against him.
Well, you see, in order to be pardoned he had to be indicted!
O.K. So that... I'm just giving you a little historical there.
Now, what's happening is, the grand jury in Little Rock is gonna either name Clinton and his wife as co-conspirators, which is one hair away from actual federal criminal indictment. And I don't know how the President is gonna be able to continue, being named as a co-conspirator, because a co-conspirator generally is so named because he becomes a government witness against the other defendants!
In other words, David Hale, the former municipal judge, has "fingered" Clinton and his wife as being involved in a massive Small Business Administration series of...
My guest is Sherman Skolnick. He is the Committee to Clean-up the Courts.
And you have a telephone number, quickly.
I'm Tom Valentine. This is Radio Free America.
All right, we're talkin' with Sherman Skolnick, folks. And if you, any time, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, there's a telephone number. It's not a special number; it's an ordinary telephone call. So in the middle of the night it won't cost you hardly anything. It's a 5-minute message. You dial 312-731-1100. That's the Hotline, from the Committee to Clean-up the Courts. And they've always got something juicy on it, wouldn't you say, Sherman?
So Kenneth Starr is apparently gonna have the grand jury name Clinton and his wife as unindicted co-conspirators in a series of indictments involving former Justice Department official Webster Hubbell and the current Arkansas Governor, Jim "Guy" Tucker.
Now the reason for that is, the one that is arranging... that arranged this smuggling operation in '86, was Jim Thompson, who at that time was the [Republican] Governor of Illinois. He's still very powerful. He's a close crony of George Bush.
And so, the Democratic Justice Department, under Janet Reno, in so many words is saying, "O.K. You want to dirty-up the President and the first lady? Fine. We are gonna 'put to the wall' one of George Bush's closest cronies on a dope smuggling charge." And so, they've got the... there's a stand-off! In other words, they may not even indict, they may not even mention, Clinton and his wife as unindicted co-conspirators because Janet Reno's bunch is saying, "Hey! We're gonna put some [laughs], we're gonna put some Republicans to the wall!" [laughs]
So, I mean...
Thompson, our former Governor, is facing indictment. And it's a stand-off now whether Clinton and his wife will be named as unindicted co-conspirators...
Well that's interesting. I mean, the very fact that that comes up in the second paragraph of the story as re-printed in the [Chicago] Tribune on November 25th. It's all very interesting!
I mean, those that know the facts, that know various peoples at various levels of the government -- like ourselves, because we've been at this since 1958; we're not greenhorns, you know what I mean? We know what the basis of this story is! There's a stand- off!
Now if there is something unclear about this, it is because I try to put a complicated mess into non-lawyer language.
No, I don't think you... It's very clear. I think you've done an excellent job of making it clear. The hardest job that you have, and that I have, is a thing called "credibility". You see, the truth is one thing; you can be absolutely sure...
O.K. We are back, live. The final leg. My guest is Sherman Skolnick.
And you know, Sherman, we've got a situation with Vincent Foster similar to the John F. Kennedy thing: a lot of people just don't believe the official line.
Now that's the point that, in the remaining few minutes, I'd like to clarify. Chicago is very important in this. Because it was RTC in Chicago that got involved in the secret transfer of $50 million of this RTC contingency fund (which was "parked" with Household International, as I said), [which was] sent to Little Rock RTC so as to try to cover up the apparent embezzlement of that S&L by Hillary and her husband!
Likewise, the SBA funds (the Small Business Administration funds), which are the, one of the key points of the David Hale case -- and he's turned around and said, "Hey! Don't look at me, look at Clinton and his wife. Look at the current Governor."
So Chicago is very instrumental in the thing.
And, you have to understand it from a cynical standpoint. The Republicans are saying, "Look. We're gonna get one of your current Governors down there, Jim 'Guy' Tucker, and a former Governor who's now the President, Bill Clinton and his wife." So the Democrats says, "Fine! And we're gonna put into jail one of your former Governors, Jim Thompson of Illinois! Close to Bush and so on." I mean they are threatening them, each other; it's everything short of shooting. I mean, we're cynical; we're waiting for bodies...
There's a chief investigator for the RTC.
I mean, also, the chief of security of Clinton's Presidential campaign, Jerry Parks, was found murdered!
There's over 30 deaths! So this thing is so heated up, where they're saying, "Hey, you're gonna send away one of our Governors to jail -- fine. We're gonna get a couple of yours."
The American people are being damaged, of course.
Sherman, as usual, you've got us waiting to see what really happens. And I think you're way ahead of the game, again. Thank you very much for giving us your time.
Well! We've gotta stop for the alleged "news". And then we'll start again! Shortly.
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"