("Quid coniuratio est?")
Thanks to a Conspiracy Nation reader for sending me his transcript of an interview with Debra von Trapp. Standard disclaimer: I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or parts of the following.
-- Brian Francis Redman, Editor-in-Chief
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Subject: Von Trapp - more to come
On Wednesday, June 21st I called Debra Von Trapp to ask her about a show (radio) she was supposed to be on. At the last minute, she was canceled. The host said she was spreading disinformation. I wanted to get her perspective. She started telling me about the "Dateline" show which she appeared on (which I missed) and how that all transpired. I ended up recording what I could of my conversation with her. I apologize for the incompleteness of this transcript. I turned on the tape machine late and it ran out of tape before the interview was over. The following is what I ended up with:
---------------- tape starts here -------------------------------
Debra: . . . NBC was the same news organization that went after the Mena Arkansas, all the witnesses that could testify against Clinton and the drug operation that was out of Mena Arkansas. When they went out and interviewed all of those witnesses, got all of the evidence, they never AIRED any of it. And in fact some of the witnesses that they actually interviewed, later ended up DEAD.
Chuck: Oh, wow.
Debra: And when they came out and interviewed Gundersen (Ted) and Ken Parton(sp?) and myself, like, for example with me, I TAPED the interview that they conducted at the Hyatt Regency, with me, and the interview is almost two and a half hours long . . .
Chuck: Unbeknownst to them? Or were they aware of it.
Debra: Oh no no, I told them I wouldn't . . that the condition of the interview was that I tape the interview.
Chuck: Taped as in audio tape? Or video.
Chuck: Oh, video tape.
Debra: I have a Sony 8mm.
Chuck: Oh, okay.
Debra: Now that entire interview is very detailed, every question they came at me with was answered fully, um, well documented and then put down any attack that they made about me personally or the information. I had all the facts there. INCLUDING during that taping THEY admitted that they had all my documents. Chris Hanson(sp?) specifically alludes to the fact, that he has all my documents. Yet during the broadcast, they say on the air, that I say I have documents, and video and audio, and I refused to give it to them, but in fact on my tape, they admit they have it, and then they ask me for the video and audio tape, and I tell them that I will give it to them for that use of that broadcast only, they left town and never asked me for it. I followed up with a FAX to them and voicemail, pointing out the fact that they didn't ask me for it, and I found that highly suspicious, and then I turned around and used their own FEDEX account number that they had given me earlier . . .
Chuck: Uh, huh.
Debra: I faxed (she means FEDEXed) the video tape to the next location that they were taping at, which was the militia in Michigan . . .
Chuck: Uh, huh.
Debra: They have it on their VCR, ready, during their interview, and which did not air, they didn't air the actual they conducted with them a few days later . . .
Chuck: Uh, huh.
Debra: And they refused to look at it, or to take it. Which we found just stunning. First they wouldn't take it from me, then they wouldn't take it from Norm Olson(sp?) And yet they on air they said that they didn't have my documents or video because I refused to give it to 'em!
Chuck: I tell ya, these people are just obscene.
Debra: And then they said these, . .uh, . the statements such as that, . . um, . that I had . . not . uh, or I had enemies in the government and I said . . or the Irvine Police Department (Irvine, California) was an agent of my enemies in the government (laughs). I called Beno(?) Schmidt(sp?) the actual producer on this segment, again the guy who won't admit, you know, he put Joe Del Monico's(sp?) name on it and not his own, because his daddy was the president of Yale. Um, I left him a voicemail today(6/21/95) and said, "Beno, ya know, I'm noticing two things, first of all, that you didn't put your name on that, and is that because your daddy told you after I discovered who you were and he was, um, that maybe it was better not to do that? (laughs) That you be identified with Wollsey(sp?) and Bush and Clinton. And then also, I noted that you claimed on air that I have enemies in the government." and I said, "I have now reviewed, every piece of video tape that I have, while I'm in your presence, my voicemail messages to you, and all the hard copied facsimile documentation, and all my messages hand written, and in none of these documents can I find any reference to enemies in the government. So, here's the question: Beno Schmidt - Who are my enemies in the government? You seem to know and I don't." (laughing)
Chuck: And you would like to know, right?
Debra: Yeah, and I said please disclose it immediately (laughing) you know. I know you have a FEDEX account, because I used it (laughs) and you know, please write 'em down tomorrow and have them to me by Friday, because I'm deeply concerned if you've identified some government enemies that I have, I need to know about them (laughs)
Chuck: Oh, yeah, definitely
Debra: Um, their . . the almost entire coverage was erroneous.
And in what uh, . . you know, they've really done a disservice
to, I think, everyone, especially the victims in Oklahoma City .
Chuck: Oh, definitely
Debra: They have so much information from me, and they characterized me as a conspiracy theorist, when in fact, I have NEVER been politically active, I have NEVER made public statements until April 18th which was the day before the bombing, when I put out my first press release, uh, um, the information I gave to Sarah MacClendon(sp?) right after, uh, Clinton's speech, referencing this information and the fact that a federal building was going to be attacked. And then, of course it happened the next day. But, I have not been public at all. Uh, my career, I'm known as being extremely private, in my personal life, I'm know for being extremely private, and they tried to paint me as someone who has conspiracy theories and in fact that has never been the case, and I've never discussed anything like this. What actually happened was, they prepared this story and went after a woman, I believe her name is Linda Thompson?
Chuck: Oh, yeah, I know of Linda.
Debra: Yeah, that covered Waco.
Chuck: Right. She did a video tape. She's a lawyer, right?
Debra: Okay, and what happened was that, Beno Schmidt and his crew flew to Linda Thompson's location after arraigning an interview for her on this segment. They, according to Beno Scmidt's story, started the taping, they had already set up the crew, the lights, the chairs, she walked in, and as they were beginning the interview, she demanded a payment for the interview. And they explained to her, that they were a news organization, and would not pay her to be taped. She got in a huff and walked off. Now that's Beno Schmidt's statement. In fact, he said to me, "She stiffed us. She walked out on us after asking for a check." And I think what happened, is they had prepared this information, and the questioning, and the whole positioning of that story, for Linda. And instead, they couldn't get her, they came after me after reviewing the Internet or where ever they suggest they picked me up. And what they were actually approaching was a story coming from a witness inside an operation that culminated in the downing of that building , but they never represented that. And none of the information that they put out conformed at all to any of the statements that I gave them. In fact the only clips of me they show, that brief encounter regarding my statement about, um, the FBI, uh, accusing Tim McVeigh, was in fact after they had just hammered me for almost an hour over . . . uh, . . . wild statements, like, "You've been on talk shows, and you've been actively seeking publicity, and you just did this as a publicity stunt." And I just . . . I kept saying to them, "Who are you talking about?" You know, you couldn't have prepared these questions for me, because, I . . you know, . . I don't know where you did your research. It occurred to me, this is the Linda Thompson interview. And all they did was transfer the Linda Thompson interview to my segment and, I was confused because I didn't know where they were coming from with this information.
Debra: And they were just desperate to, I guess, interview Linda, and didn't get her, and decided to use me instead.(laughs) But that's, that's what happened on that segment. So what I've done, that interview, that I have taped, um, parts of it are very, the camera is very shaky. The person holding it, was actually not on a tripod(the camera). But what's important is, the audio to it, of course. And so, I'm, I'm considering either, um, editing only to the point of taking out dupli . . they did some takes and re-takes on certain questions, . . .
Chuck: Uh, huh.
Debra: And I was thinking of either just re-editing only to make sure that I've only removed duplicate takes or if it's too hard to watch in terms of the shakiness of the camera, maybe just doing an audio of the entire interview and having that publicly available, so people could listen to what actually the difference was between the Dateline interview that took place between myself and Chris Hanson and then what was aired, which was entirely different.
Chuck: Yeah, well . . .
Debra: And, . and, . . if . . if anyone who listens to the real interview can see that it was conducted very differently. They were given lots of background information, um, . .
Chuck: And what . . .
Debra: . . . documentation, photos were referenced, I mean went right down the line. It was a very hard core interview, and yet they don't suggest that any of that evidence was given to 'em during that . . you know . . segment that they did.
Chuck: Yeah, I talked to Sherman today, and he said the whole story was about 14 minutes, and they didn't show hardly anything of you. It was . . you were walking somewhere and then walking away or some . . I don't know. It was . . .
Debra: Yeah, they just told me walk down the sidewalk, sit down on the bench, just to do some little outtake shots (actually transitions shots), I remember when I was sitting on the bench, I was thinking, "you know, this is so out of character", people never see me do things like this.
Chuck: Uh, huh.
Debra: The most you would ever see me is maybe walking down an isle or something at a computer show. But I'm just not public. You don't even see me out in public. No one sees me unescorted. I just sort of, you know, an old-fashioned woman in that respect. I'm never alone. Um and I mean if I'm not with my son, I'm with an assistant or somebody. But, I remember when I was sitting on the bench thinking, "I bet, they're gonna air this shot while they're nailing me with something negative." And I'll be darned if they didn't do it! (laughs)
Chuck: You were right. You were right.
Debra: Cause it was perfect. yeah, I don't know. What I was interested in asking you to following up on, um, you said that, the uh, . . . what's this Dr. Montes(sp?) I think? Was that who this Monday interview was supposed to be with?
Chuck: Well, the name I heard was Dr. Stan. Now I don't know, maybe his last name is Montes or something, I don't know.
Debra: Oh, okay.
Chuck: But it was , uh . . .
Debra: But, did you hear it on the broadcast or you saw something that I was scheduled?
Chuck: No actually my wife heard it that on Friday or Thursday before the Monday that you were supposed to come on, and so I was driving at the time and I told her to put it on the recorder, and so, in fact I have the recording of what he said, at least the first 15 minutes worth or something like that. So . .
Debra: Interesting. So did he say that I was a no-show on his show or something?
Chuck: He said that he decided not to have you on because he felt that you were spreading dis-information and that it's just like all these people coming out with who shot Kennedy and he just went on and on. It was very suspect. It just . . .
Debra: Yeah, he called me and was very adamant, he had called me twice, adamant about wanting to schedule me. I told him, "Fine, I keep my appointments." I was there and he just plain didn't call me back, I never heard from him again. So, I didn't know what went on. But I'm surprised that . . uh . . he felt comfortable just . . uh . . instead putting . . uh . . you know . . airing some attack on me.
Chuck: So, do you still have connections with the people that you dealt with originally as far as the stuff you did for the Executive Office, I mean are you still in that line of business, . . . or . . in other words, the question that would follow that would be, do you still think the White House is still compromised as far as its communications go?
Debra: No, I think what happened was um, just as I have said in previous interviews, by September, by the end of September when Mondale's office finally took me seriously, about the fact that the office was compromised , and that the trade talks were compromised, as a result of it, and uh, and that uh, all that went out of the media,(meaning kept out of the media) and then, um, Allen Witchar(sp?) was sent back from the White House to Oklahoma City, and concurrent with that, the Secret Service without having I guess Leon Paneta or Clinton's staff acknowledge to the Secret Service that they already knew the source of the bugging operation. The Secret Service was independently conducting their own investigation, and in fact had in California contacted Scott Barnes who was a name that , er, that was a name that was familiar to people who followed the Perot petition committee scandal over the bugging there because Scott Barnes was in fact paid by the Republican National Committee to bug the Perot petition committee.
Chuck: Oh, I see.
Debra: At the same time that Goetzman(Robert - sp?) and Gary Thomlinson and I were also inside the Perot petition committee and Thomlinson and Goetzman were bugging it independently on behalf of the FBI.
Chuck: Oh, and they weren't aware of each one doing the same thing.
Debra: Right, and they weren't aware of Scott Barnes doing it on behalf of the Republican National Committee . . .
Chuck: Oh, I see . . .
Debra: And then concurrently, Perot had hired Scott Barnes intentionally, to bug his own equipment, to spy on the volunteers. So we had sort of a bugging operation in triplicate going on, which, you know, it's almost like a Keystone Cop operation., when you think about it. It was really funny, in the aftermath that everyone was bugging everyone else, and all three operations weren't aware of each other., um, until much later. But what happened was, I was on a talk show discussing that bugging operation and the fact that right up through September the White House hadn't even accepted the fact that that was happening and then immediately in October it was acknowledged and it was swept and . . the . . as far as I knew, everything was discovered at that point, based on the information that I had given. And Scott Barnes would happen to just walk in literally, like walk into his house, hit the end of the show, and called. And I ended up on a phone call with him, after the show went off, we had a three way call between the host, myself and Scott Barnes, and we discussed at length for about 45 minutes what went on at the Secret Service, because they came out and accused him of perhaps bugging the White House. And he said that the reason they did was because one of the taped conversations between Sylvia Paneta, who is Leon's wife, and Scott Barnes who had happened to call into Leon's office, and as I had been doing. He had called in, had been a conversation with Sylvia Paneta, and the tape literally had gotten loose somewhere in Washington and was being duplicated, people were listening to it. The Secret Service found it . . . somehow . . . gotten possession of it, came out to California . . .
[tape runs out]
Sorry about that! I have done a subsequent interview with Debra and I will transcribe that also (time allowing) ASAP.
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
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