("Quid coniuratio est?")
BOSNIA: HOW THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND MEDIA HAVE FAILED AND MISLED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
Special thanks to my "Chicago connection" for sending a videotape of a public access program, "Broadsides", which was taped on June 6, 1995. Host is Mr. Sherman Skolnick of the Citizens' Committee to Clean Up the Courts; co-host is Mr. Robert E. Cleveland, an attorney and associate of Mr. Skolnick. Guests are James Nagle, an attorney with the law firm of Querry & Harrow, Andrew B. Spiegel, also an attorney, and Mike Pavlovic, a Serbian-American.
Pardon spelling errors. If you know the correct spellings, please let me know.
Contact info: Andrew B. Spiegel, PO Box 396, Wheaton, IL 60187
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In Chicago there are descendants of all these factions, right? There's Moslems, there's Serbs, there's Croats -- all these different factions live in the Chicago area. Am I correct?
Do they get along with one another? Or do they (unknown to the rest of us) fight around?
There's lots of good Croatian people, lots of good Moslem people, lots of good Serbian people. But that time, the Second World War, Ustashe was organization that was able to work together with German Nazis.
I have a Croatian guy at work in my office, together with me.
So that makes it a little sensitive?
It's not sensitive. We are very reasonable about talking about what's going on; we don't want war. We want to stop killing. That's very important. And I know that we can stop killing! And then, we start negotiating.
So for that purpose, the three of you formed a goodwill mission earlier this year . Tell us a little bit about it. What was the idea behind it?
Well Mike has been very concerned about the situation in Yugoslavia, which was his homeland. He came up with the idea at the beginning of this year that if the Serbs could live under a system of government like we have in the United States, that would help solve the problem. So he asked me to put together a document that they could use to form this type of government. So we put together a "declaration of independence agreement" that was modelled on the Declaration of Independence of the United States; we put together a constitution that was modelled on our own Constitution, but taking out some of the defects in our Constitution that has let the U.S. government get way out of control -- at least in my opinion. And [Unclear] hand-carried these documents to President Karadzic in Pale, which is the capital of the Republic of Srpska. In January, he had invited us to put together a delegation to consult with them in Pale about their use of this declaration.
It's important for your audience to understand the legal situation here. Yugoslavia was made up of six republics. It was a violation of the Yugoslav Constitution for any republic to secede from Yugoslavia. At the time, in 1991, Yugoslavia was a member of the United Nations. Three of the six republics -- Slovenia, Croatia, and Bosnia -- decided that they were going to secede, in violation of the Yugoslav Constitution. In order to stop that, the leader of Yugoslavia, President Milosovich(sp?), not unlike our own President Lincoln, sent in the national army to stop them from seceding from Yugoslavia.
Is that a quick and simplistic way of trying to understand a complicated thing? That when one of the provinces, like the southern states, tried to secede from the national government, it caused the American Civil War? (At least that's what some people think caused it.) Is that an uncomplicated way of trying to understand what appears to be a civil war in Yugoslavia?
That's only part of it. The second part of it is that the Serbs living in Croatia and the Serbs living in Bosnia -- like the Virginians living in West Virginia -- did not want it to secede from Yugoslavia. So they seceded from the Republic of Croatia and the Republic of Bosnia and set up their own independent republic which was independent from those republics, but not independent from Yugoslavia. So today, in fact, the constitutions of Croina(sp?) (which is the Serb republic in Croatia) and the Republic of Srpska (which is the Serb republic in Bosnia) -- it's a violation of those constitutions for them to secede from Yugoslavia!
Bob, you've studied this thing. What's your take on what appears to be a civil war over there?
Well it appears to be a matter of these people looking out for their own problems and not being subject to outside interference. For whatever reason that may be, certain European countries wish to get in and interfere in the guise of "peacekeeping", when there is no peace!
Who's interfering? The Germans?
The Germans and the French... proclivity. And they're encouraging us, the United States, to send armed forces over in the area. They use the planes for the "fly over". They've done other things there that...
Really, they're trying to influence decisions that could be done internally, within the country.
So all these provinces are claiming a separate sovereignty and a separate government? Do they all have separate governments, separate taxing, separate everything?
Well they do now. Slovenia is an independent country now. Croatia is an independent country now. Bosnia is an independent country now. Macedonia is an independent country. And the new Yugoslavia, also called the "rump Yugoslavia" -- which is comprised now of Serbian Montenegro -- is an independent country.
Mike, I think our viewers would like to know what do the people over there subsist on? They're so busy killing each other; do they manufacture anything to make money in the meantime? How do they get all this money to buy arms, food and whatever they need? Where does it come from?
That's a good question. It's very hard to answer.
Do they manufacture anything over there?
They don't manufacture nothing right now.
So on what do they subsist?
Well what they subsist on... You have to understand: 90 percent of the Republic of Srpska is agriculture. So they're self- sustaining.
Tell our viewers what or how you organized by way of a peace mission, a goodwill mission, or what. How did you go about it?
Well, because we were trying to get them to form a democratic form of government, I asked Jim Nagle to accompany me, who in addition to being a trial lawyer is a constitutional law expert. And I asked Mike Ginsberg(sp?), who is a senior buyer with United Air Lines and is a businessman and familiar with free market principles, to join the delegation so we could try and convince President Karadzic that this is the type of government he should have.
And ironically enough, when we sat down with him on Saturday, April 22nd to discuss these issues, the first words out of his mouth was that he wants to set up the very type of government that we were trying to convince him to set up: a limited government, with the private ownership of property, where everybody has equal rights.
[Document shown on the screen.]
What we're looking at now is the April 22nd letter that we convinced President Karadzic to fax to President Clinton, on April 22nd. The most important portion of this letter is the last paragraph, where Karadzic states: "What we are proposing, therefore, is a permanent peace treaty to end the war completely, and negotiations to resume at the same time under the auspices of the international community."
President Karadzic was so impressed with what we had to tell him that he called a special meeting of his cabinet for Sunday, April 23rd. This was 8 o'clock in the morning, on their Easter Sunday. They took the time out to meet with us to discuss these documents.
That is the Eastern Orthodox Easter.
Eastern Orthodox Easter.
And right from that meeting, they went to Eastern Orthodox services, and we went to the front lines in Sarajevo.
[...to be continued...]
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
See also: http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html
See also: ftp ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred